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Muslim intelligentsia distances itself from fatwa

Lucknow: Distancing itself from the 'fatwa' against Muslims singing 'Vande Mataram', a section of the intelligentsia on Sunday said there was a need to educate the community about the actual meaning of the lone "objectionable" word 'vande' in order to remove doubts over its rendition. Last week, Jamiat ....Read more

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A small reminderBy: Jayadevan | Tuesday , 24 Nov '09 11:35:08 AM Reply | Forward India was not partitioned between the Hindus and the Muslims. This is a subliminal message that many people project, just like the men-folk in the family telling a married sister that since her dowry has been paid out, she does not really have any rights in the ancestral house. Hindusthan is the name for the unpartitioned country, otherwise Iqbal would have edited the words of his song to say "Pakistan hamara". We have used religious symbols and happenings in order to mobilise the people during the freedom struggle. That does not mean that we should misuse the same symbols to divide them. The fatwa is a hair-splitting issue, on the same lines as usage of elevators by Jews on the Sabbath, or the dispute on whether our temple elephant should have a Gopi or a Naamam on its forehead. Patriotism is not certified by a song or flag-waving. If you feel the Jamaat is a bunch of idiots, say so. Patriotism is not the issue in this discussion

FatwaBy: Surjeet | Tuesday , 10 Nov '09 19:31:33 PM Reply | Forward It is indeed a happy moment for our democratic country that Fatwa has been ignored by our brothers. God for the country, and good for them. Things like Fatwa has no place in India, and it should be removed from the dictionary once for all.

What is intelligensia ?By: sangeeta | Monday , 9 Nov '09 20:16:44 PM Reply | Forward Intelligentsia ,secular,intellectual are the words are simply the words used by the people who wish to keep their place noncontroversial,will these same intelligentsia,or intellectuals debate whether the Quran is the word of God

I ask Hindu Brothers to read the last verses of Vande mataram and see the Hindu goddess based meaning, hence against the pure monotheism of MuslimsBy: shafi ahmed | Monday , 9 Nov '09 14:19:33 PM Reply | Forward %u201CThou art knowledge, thou art conduct, thou art heart, thou art soul,for thou art the life in our body.In the arm thou art might, O Mother,In the heart, O Mother, thou art love and faith,It is thy image we raise in every temple%u201D %u201CFor thou art Durga holding her ten weapons of war, Kamala at play in the lotuses%u201D %u201CAnd speech, the goddess, giver of all lore, to thee I bow! I bow to thee, goddess of wealth, pure and peerless, Richly-watered, richly-fruited, the Mother! I bow to thee, other, dark-hued, candid,Sweetly smiling, jeweled and adorned,%u201D

MonotheismBy: KVSKumar | Monday , 9 Nov '09 16:10:29 PM Reply | Forward If monotheism that sacrosanct, then why on on Haj. Every pebble of universe if His creation and He is everywhere. One place of country has no particular significance for Him.

A stone structure at macca or a stone idol in a temple is insignificant in terms of divinity, God is love and charityBy: aqmamin | Tuesday , 10 Nov '09 12:49:39 PM Reply | Forward Haj has a different significance, the Temple at Kaaba is just a stone structure, like any other stone structure or a stone idol, there is no living divinity in stones whether in Mecca or in Ramjanmabumi or Kasi. The Muslim haj shows the unity and internationalism of Islam, it is a religious rite that smashes the discrimination and the sort of apartheid that exists in caste based Hinduism, everyone rich and poor the ruler and the ruled worship one God at one place rubbing shoulder to shoulder (the place happened to be the first temple built in the Middle east) wearing a cotton white cloth and do the utmost sacrifice, that is when it comes to submission to the will of one True Almighty God, one sacrifices even his intelligence. In terms of defending Islam, Haj is a military exercise able to mobilise 20-30 million people at one place( you need a central place, Islam chose Mecca)who will be in future ready to fight in self-defence against the enemies of One True God Almighty

Fierst Two Stanzas of VM song is okay, the rest worships goddess DurgaBy: shafi ahmed | Monday , 9 Nov '09 14:13:26 PM Reply | Forward The controversy over the song is not new. In 1937 the Indian National Congress discussed at length the status of the song. It was pointed out then that though the first two stanzas began with an unexceptionable evocation of the beauty of the motherland, in later stanzas there are references where the motherland is likened to the Hindu goddess Durga. Therefore, the Congress decided to adopt only the first two stanzas as the national song. To this day the national song of India consists of only these first two stanzas of Vande Mataram, along with the national anthem Jana Gana Mana and Saare Jahan Se Accha.

What comes first Nation or Religion.....2By: Anil Kohli | Monday , 9 Nov '09 9:24:17 AM Reply | Forward 8.Would it be acceptable to the Union Government if some Sadhus and Sants gave a clarion call for construction of a temple or prohibiting an act or performance to the member of their community?9. Where is all this going to end and when?10. When are we going to activate the process of healing?11. Winning election and garnering votes more important than unity of this Nation.The door has been prized open for further such fatwas towards other national symbols, should this not be nipped now, the price exacted could be far heavier. What would the Government do incase this religious group was to demand that the passports issued to them should be written in Urdu?Did the very Congress perform its duty of protecting the minority group in 1984 when there were large scale killings on the street of Delhi between 1st to the 3rd of Nov? Is this duty enshrined in the constitution of India? What are the duties of the minorities? Where are they enumerated?

The Laws of God come first, the nation later.By: iqbalmiran | Tuesday , 10 Nov '09 11:19:47 AM Reply | Forward What comes first nation or religion? Can you answer the question if a Muslim asks you what comes first, the Laws of God or the Laws of humans? There is a duality of man; he is a member of the religious community and a member of the nation. A Hindu living in England is a Hindu by religion and a British by citizen. Can you ask the Hindu to totally ignore his religion and throw it away to become a jingoist, narrow minded British? Same thing about Indian Muslims, Indian Muslims are very loyal to India(they proved it more than RSS leaders during the time of India%u2019s independence struggle), but their loyalty is qualified by the condition that they will obey the laws of India as long as the laws do not kill their Islam based monotheism. Once the future Hitlers compel them to ignore their monotheism, they will start the real struggle against such moves.In that respect, unequivocally we say that the Laws of God come first and we obey God first before considering obeying the culture based laws of a nation.

Nation or GodBy: sharad | Sunday , 15 Nov '09 16:53:38 PM Reply | Forward Dear friends, all views are not wrong however as suggested by someone earlier; we can look at first 2 stanza's of the song & all of us accept it. We are sons of the same soil & same country, let us move forward & not get separated by these ill meaning arguments. Jai Hind. Sharad

Unnecessary debateBy: D.A.Eswar | Monday , 9 Nov '09 7:40:06 AM Reply | Forward Real Mahatma Gandhi is forgotten long back. Why talk of National Anthem or national Song Vande mataram ? It is high time to stop these fathwas and debates. A muslim cannot accept non Muslim Ruler like Hindus who invite a christian liek Sonia and half Christians (Name sounding Hindus like Rajasekhara reddy or Rahul Gandhi).So it is better to drop all these discussions and go forward for Peace and Prosperity. Let us not invite Taliaban or American and divide us as Hindus and Muslims

IntelligentsiaBy: Citezen | Monday , 9 Nov '09 5:25:11 AM Reply | Forward This is a minority species in any society. For these guys there is no religion and narrow out look these are real intelligent not pseudo intelligent people mentioned in these comments; like our ruling party's pseudo secularists.Why can't these guys work collectively (Muslims,Hindus,Sikhs and all) to force the govt. not to play politics with religion and keep the governance separate and try to improve the living conditions of common people.Not to waste funds on useless subsidies but to use them to educate people and provide sanitation and health.The only solution for this bane ADOPT AND ENFORCE COMMON LAW TO ALL INDIANS WITH OUT ANY EXCEPTION THEN AND THEN ONLY THE COUNTRY WOULD PROGRESS. JAIHIND.

A small reminderBy: Jayadevan | Monday , 9 Nov '09 4:46:25 AM Reply | Forward India was not partitioned between the Hindus and the Muslims. This is a subliminal message that many people project, just like the men-folk in the family telling a married sister that since her dowry has been paid out, she does not really have any rights in the ancestral house. Hindusthan is the name for the unpartitioned country, otherwise Iqbal would have edited the words of his song to say "Pakistan hamara". We have used religious symbols and happenings in order to mobilise the people during the freedom struggle. That does not mean that we should misuse the same symbols to divide them. The fatwa is a hair-splitting issue, on the same lines as usage of elevators by Jews on the Sabbath, or the dispute on whether our temple elephant should have a Gopi or a Naamam on its forehead. Patriotism is not certified by a song or flag-waving. If you feel the Jamaat is a bunch of idiots, say so. Patriotism is not the issue in this discussion

A small reminderBy: N.V.SANKARAN | Monday , 9 Nov '09 10:56:48 AM Reply | Forward Mr. Jayadevan, you are being too lofty in your opinion about partition of India. History says that a very large section of Muslims wanted a country for themselves. India was the name given to the subcontinent by the British. At the time of partition, the country was divided into Muslim majority Pakistan and Hindu majority Hindusthan. The concept of Bharatmata or the adoption of Vande Mataram as the national song was not the creation of any Hindu religious fanatic, but it was accepted by all who remained in Hindusthan including the Indian Muslims. The Fatwa against the Vande Mataram reminds me of the story of the Arab and the Camel. The story is somewhat like this. After a long day's journey through the desert riding his camel, an Arab wanted to rest for the night. So he built a temporary tent in the middle of the desert. The Arab left the camel outside the tent and slept inside the tent himself. Then it started raining. The camel approached the Arab and pleaded him to give some space inside the tent to protect its head from the rain. The kind Arab let the camel push its head inside the tent. Gradually, the camel brought its neck, then its complete body inside the tent and the Arab was pushed out of the tent into the rain outside. My request to all the secularist Hindus is to be careful that their misplaced and misguided broadmindedness do not push them into the rain outside.

India is multi-cultural it is not a Hindu rashtra or Brahmin rashtraBy: abdullah | Tuesday , 10 Nov '09 13:19:36 PM Reply | Forward Sankran's explanation is utter non-sense to logical and scholarly explanation of Jeyadevan.Indian Muslims had been Hindus even before the coming of Aryans who by a false ideology converted the entire Indian population to an illogical religion dividing the people on caste basis in order to slave them in the name of god ,manu, vedas and so on. To go back to your anology, simply because your brother has married a non-indian and left Hinduism, can you deny the fact that he was born to the same mother?

India is multi-cultural it is not a Hindu rashtra or Brahmin rashtraBy: N.V.SANKARAN | Thursday , 12 Nov '09 13:22:38 PM Reply | Forward Mr. Abdulla, where did I say that India is a Hindu or Brahmin country? It is a historical fact that the sub-continent was divided into Muslim majority Pakistan and Hindu Majority Hindusthan at the time of partition and everybody including the Muslims who became part of the Hindusthan had accepted the concept of Bharatmata and the national song. The purpose of national song is not to bow in front of any inaminate object or any Hindu goddess, but to inculcate a feeling of patriotism in the minds of the Indians. It is only a symbol. And if you argue that one need not sing the national song to prove one's patriotism, then the same theory applies to the National Anthem and the National Flag. Singing the national anthem and saluting the national flag infuses a sense of pride in the minds of the people of the country and national song has the same effectif you look at it as pure salutation to the motherland and don't link religion to it. The fatwa shows that some Muslims put their religion above the nation and this I think is not according to the secular nature of the country and surely causes fear that in a critical situation, those who refuse to sing the national song under religious reasons may align with their co-religionist in other countries and turn against the country. The fact is, the whole issue has nothing to do with religion, but is purely political.

What comes first Nation or Religion??????By: Anil Kohli | Sunday , 8 Nov '09 22:42:51 PM Reply | Forward The suggestion or a premise that singing of Vande Mataram would amount to affirming ones patriotism,conversely lack of it,is ludicrous and absurd.What was the purpose of the fatwa?If it was to object the coercion or compulsion to sing the national song, then what is being done,is exactly the same,coercion is employed prohibiting a section of the Indian society from singing the national song.If the former is unacceptable,is communal, how on earth can the latter be acceptable and secular.However there are larger points which need to be visited and should not be glossed over in our usual hope this will fade away. The benevolent attitude, of the Union Government, the accompanying pontification is a cause for serious concern.A fatwa in the presence of ¼ to ½ a million Indians of common faith, carrying the message back to a nuclear family of 4 at the very minimum we are looking at a million plus people who receive the message first hand,the Geometric Progression impact would be much larger.

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