You had visited Pakistan along with Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee. What was the response of the Pakistani leaders to the initiative from your side?

The desire to reciprocate the gesture is very much there but Kashmir remains the main hurdle. Pakistan would like the issue to be settled first as a precondition to normalisation of relations. It can be settled only at the higher level between the two governments. As the issue is both critical and sensitive, any leader from either side taking the initiative would have to pay a price politically. For, the sentiments being equally strong on both sides, the initiative is bound to be opposed by certain sections.

How about two Punjabs taking some initiative to havegreater interaction?

That will again depend upon the governments of the two countries. I personally believe that trade and business should be promoted between the two Punjabs, at least at the private level without involving the governments at this stage. This would give a big boost to the economies of the two states.

Coming to the scene back home, people did not expect the Akalis to fight among themselves after coming to power with such a massive mandate.

I fully respond to the aspirations of the people on this account -- the Akali Dal, the second oldest political party in the country, should remain united. People have faith in us. All through the history of the party, the people have recognised only one Akali Dal, though there have been several factions at one time or the other.

How important is the role of an individual leader in the Akali Dal?

It is the party which is supreme and people go by the policies of the party and not the individual leader. Howsoever towering the leadermight be, in case his policies do not get the mandate of the people, he would be rejected by them.

How do you view your fight with Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee President Gurcharan Singh Tohra?

I have no personal axe to grind. I have always followed the correct path.

nWhat does that mean?

I would like to go back to the Emergency days when the Akali Dal launched an agitation against it. My colleagues were not in favour of launching the agitation against the Emergency. Then prime minister Indira Gandhi had made an offer to the Akalis. She was prepared to hand over power to us in Punjab provided we withdrew the agitation. At that time, 95 per cent of the Akali leaders argued that Badal was not following the correct policy by pressing for agitation. However, I stood my ground and the party emerged stronger from the agitation against the Emergency.

Then the signing of the Rajiv-Longowal accord to settle the Punjab problem was another issue in 1985 to which I was strongly opposed.I was of the view that the accord would amount to another betrayal. However, Surjit Singh Barnala and Balwant Singh persuaded then Akali Dal President Sant Harchand Singh Longowal to sign the accord. A day before he was gunned downed, Longowal was at my place and he admitted that the Akalis had been betrayed in signing the accord. My assessment proved to be correct.

Some other issues are also now being raked up...

People want peace and communal harmony. Development is not possible without peace and amity. Any leader who gives a programme to the contrary would get isolated.

How is your relationship with Tohra?

I have nothing personally against him. At the time of the formation of the government, I had pleaded with him that both of us are at the fag end of our lives and we should not allow differences to crop up on any issue. I had offered to go to any extent to maintain harmonious relations. Tohra reciprocated and pledged to support me on oath.

Then how did things gowrong?

Tohra nurtures the ambition of becoming the chief minister. There is nothing wrong in cherishing such an ambition. But the party should not be sabotaged and the government criticised just for realising this ambition. Tohra always tried to damage me directly or through his loyalists. Even when I went to the USA for treatment, he indulged in lot of propaganda against me. I went on accommodating him, to the extent of even going against my conscience. He took it as my weakness. I did not do any harm during the last two years, ever since the Akali Dal captured power in the state. But he became desperately ambitious. I still could have ignored all this but what provoked retaliation was fake signatures of the SGPC members on the memorandum which was submitted to me against recasting of the Sikh Gurdwara Judicial Commission.

Your party has been consistently pleading for scrapping of Article 356 of the Constitution. How come the Akali Dal has taken an opposite stand in the case of dismissal of theRabri Devi Government in Bihar?

My party continues to stick to the stand in principle. We are opposed to the use of Article 356 to dismiss any state government. However, it is a different case. The law and order situation there had worsened and dalits were under attack. Moreover, we will not take any step which would strengthen the Congress. In this case, our opposition to the dismissal would go in favour of the Congress which is the enemy of the Akalis. We will not take any step which will even indirectly help the Congress.