The Congress had said it would provide a constructive opposition. Does its action on Bihar justify this?
This (constructive opposition) is what Mrs Sonia Gandhi said after she took over. And what did we say about Bihar? We said that after the assassinations of Dalits, the Government has lost its moral authority. There is a difference between constitutional authority and moral authority. Article 356 deals with the failure of the constitutional mechanism. It does not speak of moral authority.

The Congress was vehemently criticising the rule of the Rabri Government and may now be held responsible for her return to power. How does the party reconcile to this?
If the Government wanted topinpoint the killing of the Dalits, they should have made a fresh proposal to the President. They mooted the original proposal with the President some time in October.

So virtually, President's rule has been imposed on the basis of a recommendation mooted by the BJP in October. And at that point of time, the Congress had protested and even sent a deputation to Bihar. We said we do not support the imposition of President's rule. So, how do we support it now? First, we do not feel the failure of the law and order machinery resulting in the massacre of some persons creates the constitutional crisis which needs invocation of Article 356.

If this was the case, why has President's rule not been invoked in Gujarat? Why not in UP where great many things are happening?
This (imposition of President's rule) was basically a political move by the Central Government under pressure of some of its constituents. And tell me, is it is the obligation of the Congress to help the Government settle political scoresat the cost of the Constitutional mechanism?

Can anyone say that we demanded President's rule in Bihar earlier? We talked of moral value and where we had the authority and power, we demonstrated it. We expected others to do so also. We thought the BJP should pull up the Chief Minister of Gujarat. They did'nt do it. Why are you accusing poor Laloo Prasad alone? What about the BJP, a party which pledges to be a party with a difference?

At Pachmarhi, the Congress said a return to two-party rule was imminent but the Bihar development has sent very confusing signals. Laloo Prasad Yadav has held consultations with Sonia Gandhi...
Our position remains the same and that the Congress does not believe in coalition and that one-party majority is the need of the hour. We do not subscribe to the view that an alliance at the Centre will be conducive to provide political stability. If there is instability in the composition of the House, you cannot have stability artificially.

In Orissa, the Congress hasby default strengthened the BJP-BJD combine and your own party is split into three groups...
Electorally, the BJP and BJD achieved some spectacular results in the Lok Sabha elections but the trend was reversed in the byE-elections. And in our unit, there have been differences earlier, but most of the time during elections we are in a position to put our heads together and that ensures our success. But I do not subscribe to the view that due to the change in Congress leadership, the BJP-BJD will gain electorally. They are not less divided than we are. The BJP is just an appendix of the BJD.

Were you personally in favor of J.B. Patnaik's removal?
It is not a question of personalities or personal likings. Party decisions are not taken on the basis of personal likings.

So is it the resurgent Congress that Sonia Gandhi is leading?
The taste of the pudding is in the eating. Look at the electoral performance. It is definitely encouraging -- in the three Assembly elections and now inthe by-elections. You see, Congressmen have an amazing amount of confidence in the Nehru-Gandhi family. And when the Congressmen are galvanised, they are better than their counterparts in other parties. She has been able to galvanise and energise the party.

But you are said to be unhappy with the restructuring of the AICC secretariat. Veterans like you have been brought at par with some inexperienced leaders...
Restructuring is the prerogative of the Congress President. It is not a question of personal liking or not liking. And if you see the history of the Congress you will see that the Congress President has become General Secretary later. Like Nehru was party President for years and later became the President of the UPCC. Subhash Bose, was another Congress President who was to head a PCC.

You are said to be in favor of early elections because of steadily deteriorating economy and the worsened fiscal inheritance the Congress will get...
The economic situation is very bad. Anddefinitely the BJP will not be able to improve the economy. But what can we do also? What role do we have to play with 140 members in the Lok Sabha?

And personally, I am not in favor of early elections. The fact is that there are 220 seats in UP, Bihar, West Bengal and Tamil Naidu. Congress got only six seats from this block and 134 from the balance of 320. If we aspire to come back to power, we must look at the ground reality and see how much we can get from these 220 seats.

n How do you rate the annual budget?
Yashwant Sinha has done exactly what he did last year -- he has depressed the expenditure and inflated the receipts.

What would you have done if you were the Finance Minister?
First of all, I would never have accepted the Finance Ministry in a position like this. A Finance Minister must have his say and have the full support of his Government. But what we are hearing and all the rollbacks announced by Yashwant Sinha, does not speak well of the situation. And in the Budgetthey have not followed any line and that is why we call it a status quoist budget.

Is the Congress worried about the euphoria on the breakthrough in Indo-Pak relations with the bus diplomacy?
You have yourself used the word euphoria and euphoria does not last long. Diplomacy is not about euphoria or doctrines. It needs hard-core negotiations and it is the result of the negotiations that matters. But we have said we welcome it as a gesture and it is nothing but a gesture and symbol. Symbol and gesture should be followed by substance, which has been lacking in the BJP rule.

In fact, it is difficult to identify the character of this BJP government. There is a daughter-in-law of Indira Gandhi. There is a Minister who is three-generation Congressman (Rangarajan Kumaramangalam), there was a Minister who was a Home Minister during Rajiv Gandhi's time (Buta Singh), of course, who is no longer there, there is someone who is a close follower of Chandra Sehkhar (Yashwant Sinha).

On the whole, I expecteda mature behavior from the BJP. In the beginning they dismissed us, then they followed it up with outbursts. They are still harping on things like Sonia Gandhi's Christian status and all that. A mature political party should not speak of these things.