`We don't want a certificate on secularism from CPM'

`We don't want a certificate on secularism from CPM'

As the West Bengal Congress gets ready to go in a new political direction, NEERJA CHOWDHURY speaks to the veteran Congress leader from the state, PRANAB MUKHERJEE. Excerpts:The CPM has attacked the Congress for being insincere in its fight against communalism by considering a grand alliance in West Bengal with the Trinamool Congress?
Let the CPM answer a simple question. In July 1993, they brought about a motion of no-confidence against the Narasimha Rao government. If Rao's government had collapsed then, who would have formed the government? We don't want a certificate on our secular character from the CPM.

Then, who first gave the call for a combined opposition against the Congress in July 1988, which resulted in a loose confederation under the leadership of V.P.Singh who formed the Government?

Do you plan to go in for a grand alliance with Mamata Banerjee?
Whether there will be a grand alliance or not, I can't say. The question remains: How can the Congress go with the BJP? It is a national party. We have dislodged the BJP in five states and formed governments. Of course, in Madhya Pradesh we came back to power. The BJP was an emerging force in Karnataka, we defeated it.

On the other hand, the ground reality in West Bengal is that after 22 years of misrule of the Left, if an arrangement is made by which there is no split in the non-Left votes, then the Left parties would be defeated.

One option (for the Congress) is that we go with the Trinamool Congress. For that, the clearance has been given (by the party High Command). At the same time we are saying that we will have no truck with the BJP. But the Trinamool is with the BJP.

These are contradictory positions. So far as I understand the Congress President, she is very clear. She does not want any truck with the BJP. n What is your personal view on the subject?

I can't air my views in the press. I will give these only in the CWC. That is why I have remained silent for so many days. Whatever be the party stand, will be my stand. I am confident that something will work out. After all, politics is managing contradictions.

Are you considering the model adopted by the National Front in 1989? It aligned with the Left parties on the one hand and with the BJP on the other and the two adversaries, the Left and the BJP, did not have to align with each other directly?
The situation is not comparable. The ground reality then was that the BJP did not exist in CPM-ruled or -influenced states, and vice versa. The CPM hardly had any influence where the BJP had a presence.

If Sonia Gandhi does not go in for an alliance with the Trinamool Congress in the state elections next year, the Congress is likely to get wiped out and this can be very problematic for Sonia Gandhi's own leadership?
That is her problem. However, I do not subscribe to this theory of getting wiped out. In the life of a political party, there will be ups and downs. A party never gets `wiped out'. Look at the BJP. The Jan Sangh had an upward swing in terms of seats and votes in the first four Lok Sabha elections. It came very near to becoming a recognised opposition party (with 10 per cent of the strength of the Lok Sabha). Look at their performance in 1980 and 1984, and now. How can you say that a political party will be wiped out?

Mamata has said that she will make Ghani Khan Choudhury the Chief Minister?
PM: I have no knowledge of it. I cannot comment on it.

You are going to have municipal elections in West Bengal very soon. Will you align with Mamata's party?
Some kind of an adjustment may take place between the Congress and Trinamool Congress. The nominations have not yet started, so the picture is yet to become clear. There are elections to 81 municipalities to take place in May and for the Calcutta corporation in June. No decision has been taken at the Centre.

You had tied up with Mamata in the zilla parishad elections ...
That was worked out at the local level. But it was not very effective. Neither she nor the Congress got a single zilla parishad. In rural areas her influence is not there. Of the nine Lok sabha seats that Mamata won last time, seven were in Calcutta or surrounding it. She got only two from the rural areas.

But then you had joined hands with Mamata even though she was an ally of the BJP?
Some adjustments had taken place at the local level. We did not go in for adjustments. The Centre does not decide about local elections.

The fact of the matter is that the Trinamool Congress is on the rise and the Congress is on the wane in West Bengal?
There are many reasons for this. She (Mamata) has taken a big chunk of the Congress activists. Bengal politics has got polarised between the anti-left and pro-left (forces). This has posed difficulties for the Congress. The Congress support to the United Front in 1996 sent a signal, that the Central leadership (of the party) had come to an adjustment with the Left in the larger context, which Mamata exploited fully.

The anti-Left vote went to Mamata in 1998 itself. That is why in 1998 we got only one Lok Sabha seat. In 1999 we got three seats which were in North Bengal. In the South, we did not get a single seat. Most of the Congress MLAs, however, belong to the southern part of the state. This may be one reason why there was cross-voting in favour of the Trinamool-backed candidate in the recent Rajya Sabha elections. If this trend continues, we'll be in trouble. The (party's) vote percent has come down from 42 per cent to 14.5 per cent.

There is some murmuring in the party about having the principle of one-man-one-post enforced?
We've given up that practice a long time ago. It was there in the Sixties. But after the second split (in the party) we have not done it. Indira Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi and P.V. Narasimha Rao continued to be PM and Congress President. Sitaram Kesri was CPP leader and the Congress President. The present arrangement is the same.

There is a demand for the party to review its stand on the economic policies, and consider the fallout of globalisation on the poor?
There was some discussion on this. From time to time, a review has taken place. There is never any harm if there is a fresh look at the emerging scenario. But the CWC has to take a decision on it. A group will have to be set up and given clear terms of reference.

The beauty of the Congress is that it has remained flexible and that it adjusts itself to the changing scenario.

What about the revival of the Congress?
I have no instant solutions. We have to build up the party. It's a hard, laborious process. Everything takes time.

L.K. Advani has suggested an open ballot in the Rajya Sabha elections as a remedy for the use of money power and the cross-voting that took place recently?
The remedy suggested by Advani is worse than the disease. A secret ballot is part of the democratic system. Enforcement of discipline is the responsibility of political parties. It can't be remedied by making a law. Today they say there is too much instability in the parliamentary system, let us go in for a presidential system. After some time they will say there are too many elections so let us go back to monarchy. All this is sheer absurdity to my mind.