‘The problem is in the way the telecom sector has been dealt with after 1999’

M K Venu: Which is your first love—HRD or telecom?

Kapil Sibal: HRD is something I’m deeply involved in. I personally believe that for the country to have sustained double-digit growth,we must invest in knowledge. Most experts in the world agree on this. Management guru C K Prahlad said that in the future,India must have 200 million graduates and 500 million skilled workers if we want double-digit growth. This puts in perspective the significance and importance of investment in knowledge. That’s why it’s a passion with me.

Rishi Raj: You recently spoke about the telecom policy you plan to bring about.

Kapil Sibal: Only the broad contours of the policy. I can’t speak about it because TRAI has to give recommendations and the Telecom Commission has to be on board. I only want to indicate the direction of the policy. It is important for the country to know where we’re moving. The policy will be announced in 2011.

M K Venu: Can you tell us about the fundamental changes that you will bring to the telecom policy?

Kapil Sibal: Three public interests must be served: interest of the consumer,which means that the tariffs must be affordable and reasonable. Second,operators must have reasonable remuneration,else the industry can’t be prosperous and third,the government must get reasonable revenue. Any policy I put in place must serve these three public interests. In that context,we have to see if there is a need for 12-14 players in every circle. Should we have spectrum sharing for flexibility? It is a permanent resource. If you don’t use it,then it is a loss to the exchequer. There is a need to use it efficiently and that depends on the investment in towers. The more towers you put on ground,the greater the efficiency. A lot of companies don’t put up towers. This is a deficient use of spectrum. We must make efficient use of spectrum,see spectrum sharing takes place and that there is enough competition so that tariffs are low,but not so low that the industry is destroyed. We need a market mechanism on pricing.

Anandita Singh Mankotia: Has the Blackberry issue been resolved?

Kapil Sibal: Not yet. Security is an issue and the home ministry is managing it. BlackBerry says it is a privacy issue too and business activity may be affected.

Dinesh Gulati: The new operators have deployed infrastructure just to please the regulatory needs. How is that being addressed?

Kapil Sibal: We have issued notices. TRAI has made recommendations with reference to 38 operators who have not rolled out or have done so in a facile manner.

Sunil Jain: The dual technology issue hasn’t been addressed by you at all.

Kapil Sibal: We’ll look at that. The judgment which upholds dual tech is being appealed in the Supreme Court. Let the Supreme Court decide the issue.

Swaraj Thapa: What about the stalemate in Parliament? The BJP wants a JPC on the telecom scam but the government doesn’t.

Kapil Sibal: Through the newspapers I learnt that Advaniji said that there will be a discussion on black money in the forthcoming session. So,there is an underlying hope that they want a discussion.

Sunil Jain: As a result of the spectrum scam,have Congress-DMK relations been affected?

Kapil Sibal: There is a major concern. The law must be allowed to take its course. The Supreme Court is monitoring CBI. We suggested that there should be no interference with any government agency. I set up a one-man committee and the report is with us. All this has happened with the cooperation of the DMK. We have to address the issue as a nation. It is not about party A or B. The problem is in the way the sector has been dealt with after 1999. I’m sorry to say that the basic fundamentals of serving the public interest have not been addressed. There is no issue with DMK. DMK knows spectrum is a valuable resource. We need to know that everyone gets the optimum use from the resource.

Anandita Singh Mankotia: Can you elaborate on how the policy was not followed in the right spirit in the NDA regime?

Kapil Sibal: Under the previous licence agreements,licencees had to pay Rs 6,032 per subscriber for a year,however this was discontinued. If it were to be followed with the current level of tele-density and subscribers,Rs 2.2 lakh crore would have gone to the government treasury on this alone. In the meantime,the government earned about Rs 80,000 crore through revenue-sharing during this period,the method adopted in lieu of the original one. The net revenue loss is of Rs 1.50 lakh crore. However,this is not an issue. We don’t want to get into these. We want to set the system right. The manner in which they implemented the policy,right or wrong,this is where we are today. We have to clean the stables today and get into the job.

Anubhuti Vishnoi: The Education Tribunal Bill was deferred in the Rajya Sabha and you were called a man in a hurry. People from your own party questioned your educational reforms.

Kapil Sibal: The opposition was not to reforms but the methodology. Everyone agrees in this country that the education sector needs to be reformed. People have different perceptions but in a democracy that is bound to happen. There is no problem at all on the objective of the Education Tribunal Bill. The reason I went forward was that I wanted all legislation to be in place. We came to power in 2009 and it is 2011 now. Two years have passed and no Bill has been passed. By the time Bills are passed and an administrative machinery is set up,it will be another year—by then 4-5 years of the government would have gone by. What’s the purpose of Bills if we can’t implement them in four years?

Swaraj Thapa: The Standing Committee on Education was upset that they had worked so hard and they were not taken on board.

Kapil Sibal: I said we’ll make a statement that many recommendations will be implemented and we will amend whatever is necessary. In Parliament,I said that in my opening statement. The Bill was passed in the Lok Sabha and when it came to the Rajya Sabha,I made the statement. In retrospect,I should have waited for six months. The Bill will be passed in this session. People are on board. There is no roadblock.

Anubhuti Vishnoi: You have reformed higher education but not much has been done on the school education front.

Kapil Sibal: We have done more work on school education than elsewhere. No Bill passed has been in higher education. The RTE (Right to Education) Act was the first Bill to be passed in the opening session of Parliament. We are now working on a vocational education qualification framework that will be released in May.

Maroosha Muzaffar: RTE covers children from 6 years to 14. What about the 14-plus?

Kapil Sibal: The Madhyamik Shiksha Abhiyaan looks at that. Through some kind of legislation in five years’ time,we will ensure that children beyond 14 go to school. Our hope is that this will happen. We need 95-100 per cent retention in secondary and higher secondary education to create a critical mass of people to move into universities.

Rakesh Sinha: Sonia Gandhi praised Ranbir Singh Hooda for quitting politics at 64.

Kapil Sibal: If newspapers make a loud enough noise that I should quit,I will as and when I’m 64,not now. Every individual has to decide for himself. Should there be a retirement age for teachers,for lawyers?

Sunil Jain: Do foreign universities have to implement the reservation policy?

Kapil Sibal: They will be given a level playing field,whatever private,unaided education providers get in the country.

Sunil Jain: Navratna universities like IITs and IIMs wanted to increase fees but were not allowed to.

Kapil Sibal: We have set up a committee for that and we will ensure that by 2020,the IITs are amongst the top 100 in the world. The Kakodkar Task Force is looking at that as we need several systems for world-class universities. After its recommendations,we’ll see.

Kirtika Suneja: On the one hand you talk about giving autonomy to IIMs and on the other,you ask the All India Council for Technical Education (AICTE) to control management programmes. Is that not a contradiction?

Kapil Sibal: I have never told AICTE to control management programmes. The role of the regulator is to enhance competition,allow private enterprise to grow and ensure that there is no misuse of the freedom given to them. They have complete freedom. Some of the institutes hold their individual exams which can lead to manipulation. It is not regulating the market but only ensuring that there is no manipulation. AICTE is not a stumbling block in the process of liberalisation.

Deepu Sebastian Edmond: Are you keeping track of the funds allotted to Central educational institutions to develop their infrastructure to cope up with the OBC expansion?

Kapil Sibal: We are. What has been happening is that in Delhi,there are multiple agencies from which approvals are required for building and other things. That has delayed the whole process. Delhi University has not been able to build the necessary infrastructure to actually implement the OBC reservation issue. We are very concerned about it,and we are making sure that all institutions do that as quickly as possible.

Deepu Sebastian Edmond: While Central educational institutions have expanded by 54 per cent over the last three years,they have not been able to fill up the 27 per cent OBC quota in some cases.

Kapil Sibal: We can’t control all that; the university has to do it. We must make sure that there are 27 per cent (OBC students) but how to do it is up to the university. On the one hand,you want the government to stay away,and when the universities are not able to meet the target,then you say,‘Why doesn’t the government do something about it?

Anubhuti Vishnoi: What about the Tri-Valley episode where Indian students were electronically tagged?

Kapil Sibal: We can’t regulate the conduct of students abroad. This is not the job of the government. They must be careful. If something wrong happens,we can ask for explanations through diplomatic channels.

Maroosha Muzaffar: Will the new education evaluation scheme be extended to class 11? Are there any plans to scrap class 12 Board examinations?

Kapil Sibal: We will not scrap class 12 Board exams. The ministry has never said that. There is no question of scrapping them. Continuous and Comprehensive Evaluation,we will consider.

Sobhana K: Delhi’s CM Sheila Diskhit has been asking for powers and control in Delhi. What are your thoughts on this?

Kapil Sibal: That will be negotiated between the Centre and the state government. The system as it functions today is not efficient.

Soma Das: The US is gradually losing its ability to attract international students. New destinations in the East are aggressive in attracting students but India’s policy stance is not clear on whether we want to attract foreign students or not.

Kapil Sibal: It is a great opportunity for us. If we miss the bus,then we’ll do a great disservice to students. The issue is complex. Demographics show that we’ll be a supplier of services to the rest of the world. We need construction engineers,drivers,electronic engineers and across disciplines of civil engineering. In AICTE-approved courses,it is not IT,but civil engineering that students are opting for. We need a national roadmap where skills are required. The nature of technology is such that skills required will be different five years from now. The education system should create manpower for skills required in every industry,otherwise we will miss the bus. It is a national priority and that policy needs to be open so that foreign entrepreneurs invest in skills and maximum FDI will come in the area of skills because the global industry needs those skills for the growth of the economy. And that manpower is in India,especially the English-speaking population. So we will allow people to invest in India. For us,it is a global opportunity and imperative. Once we build those institutes,then the cost of education is cheaper. Look at medical tourism,people get services at less cost.

Anubhuti Vishnoi: On minority education,what are your plans for the Central Madrasa Board?

Kapil Sibal: If a whole community opposes a move that was to empower the community,what can you do? When the community wants it,we’ll go forward. I’m extremely sensitive to their concerns and what they want.

N P Singh: Delhi University colleges feel that they can’t expand into post graduate teaching.

Kapil Sibal: The structure of DU is the problem. It is a central university but the colleges are independent. We don’t interfere in their processes at all—their management committees control them. They don’t adhere to standards. Many undergraduate colleges are not ready for PG courses. We are now moving towards an era of autonomous colleges. These should have reached a level of excellence before becoming universities. We are looking at the issue.

Shekhar Gupta: How serious is the problem of teachers’ unions?

Kapil Sibal: It is a serious problem. The semester system allows mobility and that empowers people. Every university must move to a semester system so that you can have access to any teacher anywhere.

Shekhar Gupta: In your view,are college teachers fully employed in India?

Kapil Sibal: College teachers need to meet certain benchmarks. Institutions want autonomy but don’t accept accountability. You can’t have autonomy without accountability.

Transcribed by Kirtika Suneja