He was a very, very intelligent person.

• Going back to the idea of benevolent dictatorship and the way you explained it as Shiv Shahi, does that explain the way you responded?

First, let me make clear what “benevolent” is. It’s (acting) for the people, for their welfare. Unless you dictate, how can you rule?

• So does that explain why you did not disagree with the Emergency and you thought Sanjay Gandhi’s methods were good. You admired him?

It’s good that you have asked me this question. The Emergency is long gone, Sanjay Gandhi is no more, Indira Gandhi is no more.

• ... and Sonia Gandhi has expressed regret about the Emergency...

(Gestures dismissively) Sonia Gandhi is not a political person. I have said that she is not a political leader but a political reader. She laughed when Vir Sanghvi quoted these words while interviewing her. I saw her laugh for the first time.

• So what is the meaning of her laughter, what did you read in it?

She said I might be right.

• But she is having the last laugh.

Yes she is. But how long that laugh will last, I don’t know. Anyway, I did support the Emergency. I said: “I do support Indiraji on this Emergency. If it has been imposed in the interest of the nation then I am with her.” I also said that if she had brought the Emergency for the sake of her own chair, I would oppose her vehemently.

... contd.