‘An important comrade said Manmohan will get up when we ask him to,sit when we ask him’

I had the great fortune of enjoying the confidence of some of the Left leaders. When I was first elected,I was an Independent candidate supported by the CPI-M. The CPI was supporting the Congress then. Comrade Pramod Dasgupta,a leader I admired and respected,suddenly rang me up to say,‘I am sending somebody with a piece of paper,you just sign it’. It was a membership application form for the CPM. I was very happy because I was not from a rural background and not a typical choice for a member. They probably thought I would be able to serve the party. At one time,I was the president of nearly 30 trade unions affiliated to CITU. Then I was made president of so many governing bodies of colleges. That’s all because of the party.

So you did become a Communist at heart.

Well,I became and I still am,though I may not meet all the requirements that probably a hardcore Communist feels I should have.

Such as?

Well,style of living,thinking or targetting A or B or C. What Jyoti Basu taught me is that politics is the best medium of public service. I still believe in it. In politics,you deal with people,get to know their problems,learn how to solve them.

You have rubbed shoulders with so many great Communist leaders. Name some of the leaders who influenced you the most.

Jyoti Basu,Pramod Dasgupta,Benoy Chowdhury,Hare Krishna Konar,Harkishan Singh Surjeet,EMS (EMS Namboodiripad) and AKG (A K Gopalan). They all influenced me a lot. AKG was a perfect Communist leader.

Do you think if they were around,they would have changed with the times?

I don’t know. They were principled leaders. I am sure they would have understood how to serve the people better. If your support base has weakened,that means people don’t have faith in your policies and programmes,which is nothing but a death nail for any political party. And if you are divorced from the ordinary people,what remains of a Left party?

You talk very fondly of Jyoti Basu. When you had all those problems in the party,don’t you regret the fact that he did not intervene more strongly?

He was the only leader I have had. He was the first and the last word for me. I don’t think he did not try. He tried but I don’t think they listened to him. That’s my assumption,I cannot prove anything. He was like a father figure,guided me and gave me so many responsibilities. He also wanted me to be a minister in the state government. But I said,‘Please excuse me,I am not mentally made for that.’

In response to some of the things you have said in your book,your party is now saying that Jyoti Basu is no more and you should not drag him into the discussions.

I have not dragged him after his demise. I have written all that they are objecting to much before he died. To me,he was a great man and a leader.

In the book,you have written about a note that he’s supposed to have written…

A note was written. I didn’t say what its contents were because I don’t know. I have written in the book that I came to know from a reliable source that he has sent a handwritten note. I have not said anywhere that I know the contents of the note.

Did you expect this response from the party to your book?

Well,I expected that there would be a reaction—not from my Bengal comrades so much,but from Delhi. Naturally,they would not accept what I have said… You see it’s a matter of controversy in the party itself whether the withdrawal (of support to the UPA government) was right or wrong. I have never said that you must keep the Congress government alive. I said,think about your own party,because the panchayat elections in 2008 in West Bengal proved that people were going away from the party. When the withdrawal came,there was no certainty that the government would remain safe. On the other hand,it was certain that the government would go—because Mulayamji’s Samajwadi Party’s support came much later. Therefore,there would be a fresh election,which was,according to me,unfortunate as it would not be good for the party. There was a likelihood of the NDA coming to power. And earlier,they (Left) had said they were supporting the Congress from outside to prevent the greater evil from coming to power.

On the nuclear deal,you have written that you were closer to the Left. But you didn’t feel so strongly that you would pull down the government for this?

It was not in my authority to pull down but I felt that the party should consider the situation. The (nuclear) agreement had not been entered into. Just because they had gone to Vienna or IAEA for discussion,they thought enough is enough.

You describe Prakash Karat as insincere,arrogant…

No,I have not said insincere. I said arrogant and intolerant.

There is ‘insincere’ as well.

What I meant was that I was shocked that not even a show-cause notice was given to me. Till July 18,2008,he had been saying that it is for the Speaker to decide. He told me himself that it is for you to decide. He said this at three press conferences,issued a public statement. But in the meantime,they had been confabulating on this and taking a decision. That was very painful to me. And I said that this is unheard of in a Communist party—that they make one statement for public consumption and inside,they think of something else.

What was the conversation between you and Sitaram Yechury? Because he had been coming and meeting you.

He came only once. And he probably had come to know my views. He knew I had met Jyoti Basu,he knew what Jyoti Basu had told me. I am sure Sitaram has not said anything to the contrary.

From what I understand,he also says that it is not correct to drag in Jyoti Basu’s name now.

I must contest this attempt to malign me,saying I am bringing in the name of Jyoti Basu. This is a canard. It pains me very much. They should not indulge in this.

And what about ‘arrogance’?

Arrogance comes from the way he dealt with this issue.

Just this issue? You have personal issues or more issues?

I was a (party) leader for 19 years until I became the Speaker. If I had continued on the floor,probably I would have continued as a leader (of the party). They found me acceptable,put me in so many important positions. Nobody found me to be lacking in honesty and sincerity or my commitment to the party and its principles. And suddenly,I become totally untouchable that they don’t even give me the opportunity to explain my conduct,so that everybody could discuss it in the politburo.

But you also say in the book that the proximity (CPM leaders) had with the Prime Minister and Sonia Gandhi gave them an exaggerated sense of their image.

Yes,because they came to realise that their ‘yes’ was essential for the government to take a decision,their ‘no’ was enough to put it in cold storage. Somebody had said—I am not naming that very important comrade—that Manmohan Singh will get up when we ask him to get up,he must sit down when we ask him to. What is the mentality behind it?

You will not name the person who said this,not even now?

No. He is a member of the CPM politburo. And this what I feel is the trouble of having power without accountability,without responsibility.

Did the CPM suffer from a generation gap with suddenly much younger leaders coming in?

No,I don’t think there should be any generation gap. But they have their own ideas about their own importance,about their thinking or their inevitably being right.

But there are veterans like you who also felt there was a gap.

I am sure you are aware of how Communist parties like this function. We are just small fries. A central committee member alone is nobody. Therefore,the one and two things that I might have said naturally does not create an impression.

But did some of the other veterans also feel that way? Did Jyoti Basu feel that way?

I must say that the general impression in the party is that Jyoti Basu did not want this withdrawal. That’s an impression,I cannot vouch for it.

And his view was that they should have been more conscious of the ground situation,that the withdrawal would also damage the party.

It was a political decision…Therefore,ordinarily one would not question it. But the question is,why did you choose to support the UPA from outside? And what change took place that made you decide to withdraw? Would it serve the people whose cause you are espousing inside the House? Would you be able to serve the people better? You are inviting a fresh election. Who would you teach a lesson,to the Congress or George Bush?

Did this become personalised between Manmohan Singh and George Bush?

I don’t think so. I never felt that Manmohan Singh will compromise the interest of the country. I maybe wrong,I maybe right. But that’s my firm belief.

In the book,you talk about what you describe as the ‘other big mistake’,of trying to form a third front coalition with Mayawati,Mulayam Singh and others.

It was disastrous. It was a comic attempt.

And Mayawati as the likely prime minister?

One of the Left leaders said she was the fittest candidate to be the Prime Minister.

And that was a blunder?

I think that was contrary to the CPM’s political formulation,ideas and understanding. You can’t just join anybody and everybody.

Going ahead,how would the Left look at itself because now,it looks like the only person (Mamata Banerjee) to have ever defeated you will probably defeat the Left in Bengal.

That is media speculation.

How have you seen (Mamata Banerjee) evolve?

In Bengal,she has got a position now,she is also a Central minister with a very important portfolio.

Some people said you provided a lot of stability and calm. There were others who said you got angry to your soul. Arun Jaitley once said to me that (Chatterjee’s) problem is that he is very sincere but his blood pressure begins at 200.

I wish he was there in my position. No,I am not a very calm person. But one is sent to Parliament by the people,and there you deliberately create problems? It’s not even a spontaneous problem. If it is spontaneous,I don’t mind.

This has not been said in public but whispered by your former comrades—that the real reason you are angry is because the party and its young leaders did not let you become the President of India. They did not let Jyoti Basu become the Prime Minister.

I can only say this is concoction. (But) the situation was such that that one nod would have been sufficient. One nod from the person who would decide finally. But that was not done.

That is Prakash (Karat) or Sonia?

I would not involve Sonia because I did not belong to her party.

So one nod from Prakash would have done it?

I think so,because some of his very close friends have also told me. But I can challenge anybody in this country to show that I have ever asked anybody to espouse my cause,or requested anybody. Many leaders from the NDA came to me offering the job. But I said,in my party,this is not the way it is done.

Do you think you would have made a good President?

I don’t know. Probably I would have made a mess of it,that is why I was not allowed.

But was it ever explained to you why that nod was not given?

No. He came and said we have decided not to suggest any candidate for President. That was fair enough. I asked him,‘Why have you come to me? Have I told you to make me President? Have I told anybody in this world?’ This upsets me,this type of insinuation.

But you are a political analyst. Can you guess or analyse why the nod was not given?

I don’t know. I don’t want to bring it up because it concerns me.

So that is not something that rankles you?

Not at all. What rankles me is not giving me a show-cause (notice) and that my people have been let down. The people who built up the party… the party workers.

Transcribed by Vikram Vishal