Ramadoss: I am not a controversial person but I am not afraid of controversies. Between 1998 and 2004, there were six health ministers in six years. Health was not given much prominence in the last few decades—it was a quiet ministry. As a doctor and someone who has travelled a lot, I want to replicate the changes I see around the world in India. We all know how difficult it is to bring about any change in Indian society because we have a mindset that is impossible to change. It takes a lot of perseverance and sometimes it results in controversies. My initial months as Health Minister were very stressful. I am a very quiet, shy guy. So I shunned criticism and did my job.

Before I took over, the health ministry was in poor shape. But now it has changed for the better. For instance, the National Rural Health Mission (NRHM)—if I ever want to be remembered for my work it will be NRHM and not the anti-tobacco activity. NRHM is the fastest expanding public health programme in the world. I eat, sleep and dream this programme. It is like a silent revolution. Bihar, for example, had an average patient attendance of 40 two years ago. After NRHM, it is 4,000. From 40 to 4,000 in two years is no joke.

Before NRHM, we had only 3,500 specialist doctors for gynaecology, nephrology, etc., in the public health sector. That figure has now doubled to 7,000. Before NRHM, there were only 20,000 doctors, now there are 30,000 doctors in primary health centres (PHCs). From 22,000 nurses, we have gone up to 35,000 nurses. And we have a whole new cadre of six lakh ASHAs  (Accredited Social Health Activists).

When I took over as health minister, the ministry’s total allocation was Rs 6,000 crore; today I get Rs 16,500 crore. This is what we have achieved in four years.

In NRHM we had to set up everything from scratch. Our money goes directly to the district from the Centre. Earlier, plans and allocations made in Delhi were forced down the throats of the people. Now the people in the districts tell us what they want and we give them the money to do it.

We have promoted institutional deliveries under the Janani Suraksha Yojana to bring down maternal mortality. We pay Rs 1,400 to the mother for going to a hospital—public or private. In 2005, the total number of mothers benefiting from this scheme was six lakh. In 2006, it was 31 lakh and today it is 65 lakh.  Tamil Nadu is the first state where Caesarean operations are performed in PHCs. The World Health Organisation (WHO) is thinking of replicating the model in other countries. Another huge success is that for the first time in three years, HIV-AIDS is coming down.

We still have to restructure medical education. Of the budget sanctioned under the 11th Five Year Plan, one-fourth will be used to bring the doctor-people ratio in line with WHO guidelines. We are starting new things. It is easy to criticise the government but each state in the country is equal to the population of a small country so change is very difficult.

•Suman K. Jha: We hear your father rates you as a great health minister but he’d like to see you become chief minister of Tamil Nadu one day. Is that your political ambition?

I have my dreams for Tamil Nadu. I want it to be smoke-free, alcohol-free, poster-free and green. Policies in Tamil Nadu could have been much better. Giving one kilo of rice free, dhotis, saris, etc is not what we want. We want more employment.   

•Anubhuti Vishnoi: Your move against alcoholism may be well intended but does that make us a nanny-state where we police everyone? 

Well then, let’s remove all traffic constables too. Till such problems exist, we need such policing. We need to change public perception, create a movement. Till then, we need enforcement.  

•Vidya Krishnan: In Madhya Pradesh recently, close to 200 children died of malnutrition. Schemes like ICDS and NRHM are showing results in Tamil Nadu but have failed in the north. Is this because of your personal involvement in Tamil Nadu?

The Centre does not force these programmes on the states. If Chhattisgarh or Bihar approaches us with their specifics, we give it to them. In Tamil Nadu, they already have a capacity and they are topping it with NRHM which is why these schemes work. In Madhya Pradesh, Janani Express has been working well. We have established a platform, the states have to build on it.

•C. Jayanthi: You spoke of social justice. Why is there such tremendous persecution of Brahmins—you see it in the medical colleges—in Tamil Nadu?

Tamil Nadu is a progressive state because we have taken along every section of society. The downtrodden have been neglected for long and it is high time they get equal opportunity. But it is not as if any mediocre student gets into medical colleges. The cut-off for SC/STs in Tamil Nadu is 89 per cent, for OBCs it is 95 per cent, forward classes 96 per cent.   

•Mihir Sharma: You are promoting yoga in schools. Is yoga-related study a good use of scarce resources and time? What is your stand on promoting yoga after your public face-off with a popular yoga guru, Ramdev?

I am passionate about yoga. It is a very cost effective module to shape healthy individuals. Introducing it at the school level will inculcate yoga in children at an early age. Yoga was founded in India, exported to America and then imported back into India because we always ape the West. I had an issue with Ramdev when he said he could cure HIV-AIDS. No one can cure AIDS. Now he says he can treat AIDS, not cure it. I have nothing against Ramdev. He has been popularising yoga and a healthy lifestyle. We are like-minded people. The message here is that let’s prevent rather than treat. Which is why I want to make yoga mandatory in schools.  

•Suman K. Jha: Yoga gurus are politically active, most often supporting Hindu politics. Still, you are willing to share a dais with Ramdev?

I am out of politics on issues of health. Swami or non-swami, I will support anyone propagating yoga.   

•Ravish Tiwari: During the reservation debate, most of the protests were from medical students, the least from engineering students. That’s because there are many more engineering colleges than medical ones. What are you doing to solve this?

There are about 275 medical colleges in India. Of these, 175 are in six southern states. The remaining 100 are spread across the country. UP has only 16 colleges for a population of 18 crore, Bihar has six functional medical colleges for a population of nine crore. MP has eight for eight crore people. Orissa had only three till recently—now it has six. The northeast does not have any medical colleges. We are trying start a lot of colleges by changing the regulation of the Medical Council of India. We are focusing on the north-eastern states by relaxing norms so that corporates can establish colleges. But the problem is with government colleges which depend on Chief Ministers’ initiatives. In different states, the CMs have different priorities and health is often not one.

•Shailaja Bajpai: Do you want to clarify your stand on AIIMS and Dr Venugopal?

As for the AIIMS issue and the doctors’ agitation, I want to clarify that AIIMS was not a fight between Dr Venugopal and Dr Ramadoss. AIIMS is India’s premier institute and our vision for AIIMS is that it should be like Johns Hopkins or Harvard in the US. I do not have anything against Dr Venugopal but someone heading an institution like AIIMS should be more proactive rather than letting others run the show. People did not hear my side of what was happening at AIIMS. Before the agitation, the same RDA (resident doctors’ association) and the same faculty members gave me letters saying that they wanted Dr Venugopal removed. He was appointed director at the age of 62, going against all norms.

Then the reservation agitation happened with AIIMS as the hub. Tents were put in the front lawn even though the Supreme Court order clearly states that no protests can be held in a 5,000 metre radius of AIIMS. My concern was for the patients. When I said that the tents be removed, the matter snowballed and everyone went against me. Also, most of the media in Delhi was anti-reservation.

I am the last person to interfere with an institution. But if there is a problem, it has to be solved. I have around 50-60 institutions under my care in the ministry—none has had a problem like this.

Time and again, whatever AIIMS wanted we gave them. Annually, we spend Rs 500 crore on AIIMS. Similarly, on my not signing student certificates, AIIMS did not hold a convocation for two years but was blaming me for not signing the certificates. A registrar who was not even empowered by the institute was signing the certificates and I said that was illegal. I signed the certificates in the end but even now there are certificates that students have not picked up.   

•Coomi Kapoor: Shah Rukh Khan was quoted as saying you are impinging on his personal freedom to smoke. And you are now thinking about prohibition. Please elaborate.

Article 37 of the Constitution states that all states must exercise prohibition. Except for J&K and Gujarat, none has. Karnataka has imposed partial prohibition by removing arrack. The age of initiation into alcohol used to be 25 years, now it is 13.5 years. This is not only a health problem, it is a social problem. It leads to divorce, suicide, stress, family, accidents, etc. And the alcohol lobby is stronger than the tobacco lobby because people who own breweries and distilleries know politicians. The government and the state have to play a more proactive role. However, prohibition is a state subject so the Centre can do little. As for tobacco, every individual has a right to a smoke-free atmosphere, in a bar, pub or office. People who want to smoke can go out and smoke. We have not banned smoking. If Shah Rukh Khan smokes in public he will be fined.  

•Manoj C.G.: A lot of MPs smoke. Is Parliament a smoke-free place?

When I first went to Parliament, Central Hall was filled with smoke. I dashed off a letter to the Speaker on the law against smoking. Within a month, the entire Parliament building was made smoke-free. We will make modifications to the smoking zone in Parliament. Anyone MP or a minister found smoking will be fined.     

•Manish Chibber: The Home Ministry and the Health Ministry have a running battle over Section 377 on homosexuality as a crime. You said you will take it to the prime minister. Have you done that?

I have written to the PM and asked for time. I have not taken on the Home Ministry. The issue here is that from a health point of view, I want to decriminalise Section 377, which talks about unnatural sex. One aspect of this is pedophilia which we strongly oppose. But sex between consenting adults is not a crime. Section 377 categorises men who have sex with men (MSMs) as criminals and doctors or social workers counselling MSMs can be arrested. It is a cognisable offense with a maximum punishment of life imprisonment. Given that 86 per cent of HIV-AIDS incidence in India is via the sexual route, we need to decriminalise homosexuality. People talk about their right to smoke very passionately but what about people’s right to choose their sexual orientation?  

•Anubhuti Vishnoi: Will you share a common platform with DMK in the coming elections?

We were with the DMK till they threw us out of the alliance over frivolous issues. We are with the Congress and we will be with them.   

•Ravish Tiwari: Any chance of your going with Jayalalithaa? Or would you join a Congress-led front that includes the DMK?

There is no hint of that just now. There is a famous saying in politics: there are no permanent friends or enemies. It will be difficult for us to be with the DMK. There is a lot of animosity in the cadres and joining the alliance in the state is not going to convert into votes.  

•Unni Rajen Shanker: Some medical colleges have been given clearance in a hurry while reputed colleges like Manipal have been denied clearance.

Manipal has been running two colleges. Last year, the Medical Council had informed us of gross deficiencies in both the colleges. We had directed them to rectify the deficiencies—they did not bother. We gave them a year’s time to rectify the errors. One year later, the Council stated that they have not rectified anything. We were not in a hurry to give recognition. Proper processes are followed before a new medical college is recognised.  

•Raghvendra Rao: In a recent Bollywood movie, Manorama Six Feet Under, the protagonist goes to a paan shop, points to a pack of cigarettes and says, ‘Ek Ramadoss dena’. Have you become a subject of ridicule?

Controversies and ridicule are a part and parcel of public service. The good message going out is that Ramadoss is against tobacco.   

Transcribed by Vidya Krishnan