Maharani Gayatri Devi,who died last week,was perhaps the last symbol of the countrys princely past. Considered one of the most beautiful women in the world,she was also a three-time MP,having won with a record margin. In an interview with The Indian Express Editor-in-Chief Shekhar Gupta on NDTV 24x7s Walk the Talk in 2006,Gayatri Devi spoke about her public and political life,her admiration for C Rajagopalachari,what she disliked about Nehrus policies,Emergency,and how life remained the same even after the privy purse was withdrawn •Shekhar Gupta: My guest today is one of the most beautiful women in the world. Maharani Gayatri Devi,welcome to Walk the Talk. Maharani Gayatri Devi: Thank you very much for asking me to be on it. •Shekhar Gupta: You are not only an incredibly beautiful woman,you are also an incredibly brave woman. Youve handled challenges and tragedies. Maharani Gayatri Devi: Many tragedies and I was a Member of Parliament for three terms which is quite challenging. •Shekhar Gupta: Youve handled personal tragedies your husband and son both leaving you early. Maharani Gayatri Devi: I dont want to talk about those things. •Shekhar Gupta: I believe you were in this building when the Income Tax officials came here during the Emergency. Maharani Gayatri Devi: Yes,I was. •Shekhar Gupta: Can you describe those moments? Maharani Gayatri Devi: Well,they just came and told me there are some people wanting to talk to me. I said that I wasnt expecting anybody. Then the Income Tax Department people came. Everybody in the Opposition was raided. But nobody in the Congress was raided. The Rajmata of Gwalior,myself,all of us who were in the Opposition were raided. They raided all the palaces here and found nothing. •Shekhar Gupta: But there was a lot in the press. Maharani Gayatri Devi: I dont know about that. •Shekhar Gupta: During the Emergency,your passport was taken away because of international activity. Maharani Gayatri Devi: There was no international activity. I was due to go to Calgary in Canada,which had trade relations with Jaipur and they just took away my passport. They didnt give any explanation. Then they went up to Jaigarh and raided that too. I am not sure if I am right in saying this,but I think everybody of the raiding party met with a tragedy in their family. •Shekhar Gupta: You mean they got cursed by the fact that they raided. Maharani Gayatri Devi: No,something happened in their families. •Shekhar Gupta: So that happened because they carried a curse from these raids? Maharani Gayatri Devi: No,because they went to Jaigarh,which is a sacred place. They found nothing. But they destroyed quite a lot of the beautiful fort. I think I am right in saying that everybody had a tragedy in their families. •Shekhar Gupta: You had to endure a five-month term in Tihar. Maharani Gayatri Devi: But we were quite comfortable in Tihar. They looked after us very well. The Rajmata of Gwalior was there. In fact,the entire Opposition was there. •Shekhar Gupta: If you were not taken,it would have looked as if you were not important enough. Maharani Gayatri Devi: Yes. I didnt go alone,Bhawani Singh came with me and he was a Mahavir Chakra winner. •Shekhar Gupta: How tough was it? Maharani Gayatri Devi: Not tough. •Shekhar Gupta: .From palace life to Tihar life. Maharani Gayatri Devi: I wasnt in the palace,I was living up here and in Delhi I had an ordinary house. In Tihar,I had my own bedroom with a verandah and my own bathroom. So it wasnt so bad,except we were not free. •Shekhar Gupta: How did you spend your time in the jail? Maharani Gayatri Devi: There was a lot to do. I looked after people,started a school for children. There was a badminton court where we used to play badminton. •Shekhar Gupta: Did you make friends in jail? Political friends? Maharani Gayatri Devi: No,the only person I talked to was the Rajmata of Gwalior,who was next-door. •Shekhar Gupta: I believe you were originally asked to share your room with her. Maharani Gayatri Devi: No. She wasnt in jail. She was in a lovely house somewhere and she was expecting me there. But they put me in Tihar and said that they were bringing her there. I helped arrange her room. •Shekhar Gupta: I believe you told the jail authorities that you cant share a room because you have very different habits. You exercise and she does puja. Maharani Gayatri Devi: No,no. •Shekhar Gupta: You listen to music late into the night and read,she sleeps early. Maharani Gayatri Devi: No,no. All this is rubbish. •Shekhar Gupta: But its in your biography. Maharani Gayatri Devi: Everything in there is not true. •Shekhar Gupta: Did you meet any of the other political leaders who were in jail at that time? Maharani Gayatri Devi: The womens wing was separate from the mens and most of the men were not in Tihar. In fact,Tihar was not really for political prisoners. •Shekhar Gupta: Did you feel victimised? Why did Mrs Gandhi pick upon you? Maharani Gayatri Devi: Because I was in the Opposition. If I had been in the Congress,I wouldnt have been in jail. Its so obvious. •Shekhar Gupta: There was nothing personal about it? Maharani Gayatri Devi: Of course not. •Shekhar Gupta: Because there were some suggestions that there was something personal. Maharani Gayatri Devi: Whoever made that suggestion is a fool. Why should there be anything personal? We hardly knew each other,there could be nothing personal. She was very polite when we met. •Shekhar Gupta: Was there bitterness with Mrs Gandhi that she did this to the Opposition? Maharani Gayatri Devi: No. •Shekhar Gupta: You didnt go back to politics after the Emergency. Maharani Gayatri Devi: I did go back. •Shekhar Gupta: Only once,and then you sort of lost interest. Maharani Gayatri Devi: Fifteen years is a long time. And you cant do anything for your constituency. •Shekhar Gupta: Is that what you felt? Maharani Gayatri Devi: I felt that and I think everybody feels that. I dont know why they go back to politics,you cant do anything. •Shekhar Gupta: Most people go back to politics because it is an office of profit now. Maharani Gayatri Devi: Maybe,I dont know. But here,for instance,I am in the Opposition. I am fighting the Congress. What can I do for my constituency? Nowadays the MPs get money,they get a crore. •Shekhar Gupta: MPLAD fund. Maharani Gayatri Devi: If I had that,I could have done lots of things for my people. •Shekhar Gupta: Tell us about your first election,your first experience of politics. Did you just walk into it,not knowing what it meant,or you had thought about it? Maharani Gayatri Devi: I dont know if you have heard of C Rajagopalachari and his Swatantra Party. •Shekhar Gupta: Yes. Maharani Gayatri Devi: People came to me to talk about the Swatantra Party and what Rajaji wanted to do. I thought it was a very good idea. I had great respect for Pandit Nehru,but didnt like his policy of nationalising everything. Free India,swatantra Bharat,swatantra janata was what I believed in. •Shekhar Gupta: You believed in free economy? Maharani Gayatri Devi: Of course. When these people came to talk to us,I asked my husband,May I join the Swatantra Party? He said,Yes. I was going out for a ride in the morning and I sent for the secretary in Rajasthan and joined the Swatantra Party. Then when the election time came near,they asked me to contest from Jaipur. I had no intention of being a Member of Parliament. My husband said,Youd be the obvious choice. The election campaign began,it was an eye opener. In those days people didnt know how to read and you had a list of the names of the candidates. The Swatantra Partys sign was the star. •Shekhar Gupta: You won by a record margin. You were in the Guinness Book for a long time. Maharani Gayatri Devi: Yes. Has somebody beaten me? •Shekhar Gupta: I think Ram Vilas Paswan. Maharani Gayatri Devi: No,cant be possible. •Shekhar Gupta: Well check that again Maharani Gayatri Devi: How can we check that? •Shekhar Gupta: We can check records and inform you. Maharani Gayatri Devi: I didnt even know. My son Jagat was in school in England. He sent me a telegram,Congratulations,you are in the Guinness Book of Records. •Shekhar Gupta: During those five months in jail,did you regret being in politics? Maharani Gayatri Devi: I never regretted being in politics,I never regretted being in the Swatantra Party,I never regretted being a chela of Rajajis. He believed that India should be really free. •Shekhar Gupta: If you look at the two personalities,he and Nehru,both towering personalities,where did they differ? Maharani Gayatri Devi: Both were great friends. When Pandit Nehru had to send somebody to America to talk to Kennedy,he chose Rajaji. I admire Rajaji because he had a vision for India. •Shekhar Gupta: Take us back to Parliament those days. If elections were different,Parliament was also different those days. Maharani Gayatri Devi: I dont know what its like now. •Shekhar Gupta: Right now theres a lot of maara-mari,commotion,adjournments,walkouts,fights and interruptions. Maharani Gayatri Devi: It was better in those days,I suppose. Interruptions were always there. •Shekhar Gupta: I believe you interrupted Nehru once. Maharani Gayatri Devi: Yes,once. That was because when we had this thing with China. •Shekhar Gupta: The war? Maharani Gayatri Devi: Yes. Prof N G Ranga of the Swatantra Party told me,Jawaharlal will make fun of me and I said,In what way?. He said,You wait and see. When Pandit Nehru was replying to a debate on China,he said,Prof Ranga. professors will know more than he does. So I got up and said,If you had known anything,we wouldnt have been in this mess today. He sat down and another Member of Parliament stood up and said,I didnt hear what the honourable lady member said. So I said,May I repeat it. That if you,the Prime Minister,had known what was happening we wouldnt have been in this mess today. The next day the secretary of the Lok Sabha said,Maharani saheb,how could you be rude to someone older to you? •Shekhar Gupta: I believe the reputation spread that you were one of Nehrus critics. I believe when you met Kennedy for the first time,he introduced you as Indias Barry Goldwater,who was a great critic of his at that point. Maharani Gayatri Devi: Ah yes,something like that happened. •Shekhar Gupta: You have memories of Kennedy? Maharani Gayatri Devi: Yes,I remember staying with them in the White House. Jacqueline Kennedy and myself were walking in the garden when he called me. I went to his office and there were some Senators there. He said,This lady has won by a bigger majority than well ever get. •Shekhar Gupta: What was he like,Kennedy? Maharani Gayatri Devi: Charming and I think a very good president. •Shekhar Gupta: Did he have this deadly charm for women that he is reputed to have? Maharani Gayatri Devi: How would I know? •Shekhar Gupta: Of the international personalities youve come across in your life,who are the ones who have left an impression on you? Maharani Gayatri Devi: Quite frankly,nobody. •Shekhar Gupta: You interacted with leaders,princes,princesses. Maharani Gayatri Devi: C Rajagopalachari,definitely. And strangely enough,Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru. He loved India and India loved him. But the things he did were not right for India. •Shekhar Gupta: Which things in particular? Maharani Gayatri Devi: Nationalisation. There was no private enterprise. Everything had to be state-owned. •Shekhar Gupta: Did you ever get a chance to talk to him about this? Maharani Gayatri Devi: No,hardly. I was young and he was an older man. Howd I have the cheek to go and talk about it? •Shekhar Gupta: Did you ever discuss this with Mrs Gandhi? Maharani Gayatri Devi: No,of course not. •Shekhar Gupta: You think Mrs Gandhi was a true believer in Nehrus socialism? Maharani Gayatri Devi: I have no idea. I havent even bothered to think about her. •Shekhar Gupta: Because the next big dose of socialism came in her reign from 1969 until 1975. She nationalised banks,withdrew your privy purses and took away your titles. She nationalised insurance,brought in labour laws,put in restraints on free movement of grains. Maharani Gayatri Devi: I wasnt aware of that. I know about the privy purses. I know it was during Nehrus time that nationalisation began. •Shekhar Gupta: And you never had a chance to talk to Mrs Gandhi about it? Maharani Gayatri Devi: What for? Never. •Shekhar Gupta: How do you look back on your own stint in public life? I know youve set up these marvellous schools in Jaipur. Maharani Gayatri Devi: I started those before I went into politics. •Shekhar Gupta: I dont mean public life only as politics. You also have a public life as the Maharani of Jaipur. Maharani Gayatri Devi: Well,you marry into a state like this,you have responsibilities towards the people. Rajasthan,for instance,had purdah and His Highness didnt like purdah. So I told him,You give me a girls school and purdah will disappear. Thus,the Maharani Gayatri Devi School was established. We also started a fund. That was started more by my husband than myself. It was called the Sawai Jai Singh Benevolent Fund for all the poor people of Jaipur state. It still exists. •Shekhar Gupta: You talked about your husbands dislike for the purdah. I believe you yourself disliked purdah immensely. Maharani Gayatri Devi: Ive never been in purdah in my life,so how could I dislike it? •Shekhar Gupta: You talked about apprehensions regarding marrying him,coming to Jaipur in a very traditional. Maharani Gayatri Devi: No,not at all. Its all rubbish. •Shekhar Gupta: You always defied the system. Maharani Gayatri Devi: I didnt defy anything. Whatever is the custom here,I follow that. But I wasnt in purdah. I went riding every morning. I played tennis every afternoon and I didnt do that in purdah. •Shekhar Gupta: Tell me the difference between princely life and as life changed 1969 onwards. Did the princes have a tough time changing their lifestyles? Maharani Gayatri Devi: Of course not. •Shekhar Gupta: But the titles were taken away. Maharani Gayatri Devi: So what? •Shekhar Gupta: The privy purses were taken away. Maharani Gayatri Devi: So what? •Shekhar Gupta: There was not enough money to maintain the palaces. Maharani Gayatri Devi: Of course,there was. •Shekhar Gupta: But so many palaces had to be given away. Maharani Gayatri Devi: The choice was with the ruler. When His Highness decided to turn Rambagh into a hotel,his elder son Bhawani Singh and I went to him and said,How can you turn Rambagh into a hotel?. He said,We dont need a palace anymore,but Jaipur needs a hotel. •Shekhar Gupta: At the same time,there were adjustment problems because many of them did not adjust very well,and fights broke out in the families. Maharani Gayatri Devi: I dont know who didnt adjust well. But our family adjusted very well. •Shekhar Gupta: How do you look at todays politics? I know you have views about the city of Jaipur. Maharani Gayatri Devi: I am not bothered about todays politics. And the city of Jaipur is ruined because nobody loves Jaipur. Everybodys just making money •Shekhar Gupta: But so many tourists are coming here. Maharani Gayatri Devi: They came before. •Shekhar Gupta: What can be done for Jaipur now? Maharani Gayatri Devi: Its too late. I wouldnt have allowed those houses. They were not allowed in the olden days. They were allowed only up to a certain height,a certain style. Jaipur had a presence,an atmosphere. The people loved the Maharaja more than they do todays leaders. •Shekhar Gupta: People love you as much as they loved the Maharaja. You are the biggest brand ambassador for Jaipur. Transcript prepared by Sharika C.
