Opinion ‘In a democracy,you can’t expect decisions to be taken on the streets when there are constitutional institutions available’

Booth capturing,electoral violence,stuffing of ballot boxes…it’s all over.

It’s all history because over the years,we have learnt from experience. We have one important tool in our hands—on the slightest suspicion,we order a repoll. So if the toughies think they can get away with it,there’s no chance. Sometimes we order a repoll of the repoll till we are satisfied that this poll is a perfect poll. We don’t give up. So all those things have improved. Now only two things are bothering us: one,of course,is the money power,the black money. There are two types of money,one is the ostensible expenditure which is accounted for,which we can monitor,but it is the other money which we cannot monitor…you know,through envelopes,in kind,cash.

Suitcases. Envelopes are too small.

Yes,but when it goes in retail,when it goes to the voter—Rs 1,000,Rs 2,000,Rs 5,000…that kind of competition is really destroying the fabric of democracy.

But is that only in some states,or in a lot of the country?

No,it’s there across the country,but in some states it’s very pronounced. For instance,of the five states,interestingly,Tamil Nadu has the biggest problem. The neighbouring state of Kerala…

Zero?

Yes. When we went there,we talked to all political parties and we asked them whether they have a similar problem. All of them unanimously said they don’t have that problem. I said why? You have more money,you have even petrodollars,you have NRI money,why is it that money does not play any role in Kerala? They said that the Kerala voter is so enlightened,he has already decided where he’s going to vote. Money will make no difference,so why waste money?

Does money make a difference in Tamil Nadu or it’s just become a habit?

Anecdotally,we feel it does because we have been told repeatedly that even in bribery,there is some code of conduct. Anybody who accepts money has a tendency to vote for the party who gave it to him and if he receives from two,they vote for the party that gave them more.

What about liquor?

Liquor is a problem everywhere. In fact,in the northern states,it is little more—in UP,Bihar,liquor has been a serious problem. Actually,across the country,that’s more universal than money power.

Did we see a lot of liquor used in the last Bihar election also?

Not really,because that was a standalone election and we were fully prepared. We sealed the borders. We started monitoring the liquor production and liquor warehouses two-three months in advance,so it was very much in control.

You know what I’m getting to. Anna Hazare said that you don’t have to take electoral success so seriously because voters are not aware. They only vote on the basis of who gave them a saree,or a bottle of liquor,or some money.

It’s partly true. But at the same time,since all candidates try to do the same thing,it gets neutralised and our vigil and citizens’ awareness is very important. In fact,we have started emphasising voter education.

This leads also to the question of total contempt for the political class…that the political class is responsible for everything that’s wrong. Everything that’s going right happens because of the enterprise and goodwill of what is described as people.

Yes,you know the notoriety which the political class has got is very disturbing.

Is it well deserved?

Partly well-deserved,partly undeserved.

Is it 50-50 or,say,some percentage well deserved or mostly undeserved,or mostly deserved?

I’d rather say 50-50. After all,all politicians are not dishonest,the fact that India has become a superpower is thanks to the political leadership. Look at the neighbours. They haven’t been able to achieve what we did. Because we had political leadership. And,it’s only the black sheep which have to be identified and prevented from coming to power in the first place. That is the point we’re trying to make.

You’ve been in this business now for quite some time. You’ve dealt with politicians all your life in your and my native state of Haryana. Do you think the political class has got better or worse?

I think it’s gone for the worse for sure. It has gone down,because of the very fact that the election process starts with corruption. I was talking to one MLA from Punjab yesterday and I asked him what was the amount he declared. He said,of course,within the ceiling. He said,to what was the actual amount,much much more. That’s a reality. So we’re trying to do our best,but it is not possible for us to wipe out black money in 30 days. We don’t have a magic wand. If we impose our enforcement too strictly,then we are accused of imposing an emergency. So what is the way out? We personally feel in the commission that it is electoral reforms,which have been pending with the government for as long as 15 to 18 years. Several committees have gone into it but nothing is happening.

And if you do nothing,there’ll be another Anna Hazare movement. It’ll again come to the streets and demand something totally draconian.

Absolutely. In any constitutional democracy,you can’t expect decisions to be taken on the streets when there are constitutional institutions available for them.

Yes,but if you ignore constitutional institutions all the time…

…that will be the consequence. I’ll give you the analogy of a pressure cooker. If the safety valve gets clogged,it will burst. So we have clogged it.

That’s what’s happened with the Lokpal situation,for example.

Yes. Even in the Lokpal context,there is corruption,no doubt,but the Lokpal,I would say,has a limited role in the sense that it will only prosecute the corrupt. What we’re saying is don’t allow the corrupt in the first place to come to power. Here is a situation—criminals,rapists,murderers,dacoits— they become MLAs,they become ministers,law breakers become law makers,which is the reason why they would not allow such amendments to be passed in the legislature.

So give us a gist of electoral reforms which have been on the table.

Well,let me also tell you positive things. After 15-18 years at least,the Law Ministry about six months ago took the initiative. The Law Minister came to the Election Commission and spent about three hours discussing every reform with us and we decided that jointly we will organise symposia countrywide. Seven regional consultations were decided and six have already taken place,starting from Bhopal,Mumbai,Bengaluru,Lucknow,Chandigarh and Kolkata. Guwahati was left but elections were announced,so that got postponed. Second of April,a meeting at the national level was planned. The Prime Minister had given the date. All major parties were to come,but that got postponed because of the cricket match. So we hope that after the election process is over,this process which has been started will be taken to its logical conclusion because it is now or never.

How urgent is it? Can the government put it off because it’s distracted?

Well,the fact is that they have been putting it off all these years,so that is the concern.

They’ve been putting off the Lokpal Bill also. The Lokpal Bill is some answer to high-level corruption.

In any case,they will maybe say electoral reforms in India are confined only to political corruption. It is not dealing with bureaucracy,it does not deal with the judiciary and others,which Lokpal can probably take care of. But obviously,political corruption is extremely important. If the government is corrupt,then the bureaucracy is corrupt. The Vohra Committee had talked of a criminal-bureaucracy-politician nexus. So nothing has been done to break that nexus. Now coming to your question—what are the major reform proposals?

Which are pending…which are on the table.

On the table is that criminals should be debarred from contesting. The standard argument against it is that false cases can be filed. In fact,we had called a meeting of all political parties in October and all of them rejected our proposal for the same logic. We have a formulation which was originally propounded by the Law Commission,that at least those cases which will carry a conviction of five years…where a court of law has framed the charges. Now a court of law is independent,the FIR may be bogus,but the court of law is independent,and for framing the charges there is prima facie application of mind. There may not be total adjudication of a legal point,but they apply their mind and at that stage they can throw out the case. There is another safety clause that we have introduced—that such cases should have been filed six months before the election so that you have an opportunity to get it redressed,you know,if there is a bogus case. Second is transparency in political funding because we have been saying that all money coming to political parties should be by cheque and it should be spent by cheque. Their accounts should be audited by an auditor approved by the CAG,and they should be in the public domain. The audit report should be put on the website,so that people know. Through that you’ll be able to make out the next charge. Suppose a business house gives you money and a few months later you are favouring that business house,people will know that there may be quid pro quo. So these two are the most important proposals which can cleanse the system but there are other reforms also. For instance,the Election Commission itself. We have no power to deregister a party. Can you imagine? We can register,we can’t deregister. There are any number of bogus parties.

It has to be an amendment to the law.

It has to be an amendment in law. Also,we feel that protection to the Chief Election Commissioner should also be extended to the EC,which is actually logical. At the time when the Constitution gave this protection to the CEC,it was a single-member institution. The protection was not to the individual,but to the institution. Now it’s a three-member commission. All three should be given equal protection. Now my two colleagues can overrule me six times a day under pressure from the government,thinking that if the government is not happy,they will probably not be made CEC. Now,this fear has to be removed. Of course,my colleagues are totally fearless.

You’re saying this in general,as an example. Not about individuals…

After all,the Election Commission has been able to do what it has only because of the protection provided by the Constitution. Let me also give credit to the politician. Even the model code of conduct,which is a unique instrument,has more compliance than any law of the land,by the way. And this is a creation of political parties.

And they are really scared of it. Nobody wants to mess with it.

You know,if we give a notice to even a senior leader,that we want you to reply by 5 p.m. tomorrow,by 4 p.m. the reply comes. That is the kind of fear…and this is their own creation.

That’s a very happy line to hear. You said that the model code of conduct is the most complied with law in the country.

Yes,exactly. Model code of conduct.

Most complied with law when it actually applies to politicians whom you don’t expect to follow laws.

Yes,exactly. All other laws,for instance,they even run away from FIRs,police cases never see culmination.

Why is that happening?

Because they feel any notice from the Election Commission has that kind of effect on the people. They don’t want to get a bad name which it gives,and the reply also comes in the public domain. The public becomes the judge.

The Election Commission of India has now become a big brand among democracies in the whole world,isn’t it? You’re invited to Afghanistan,you’re invited to Egypt.

We’re going to Egypt next week.

And let me say something as a friend of at least 35 years. I know you never like to be reminded of the fact that you are a Muslim. But the fact that nearly 45 crore Muslims in the subcontinent,which is almost a third of Muslims all over the world,are today democratising,even in Pakistan and Bangladesh. Does it owe a little bit to the success of the Indian electoral system? Have we now become an inspiration,particularly the way Indian Muslims are growing,are acquiring confidence in the democratic process? Is that helping Bangladesh,Pakistan,maybe other Islamic societies also?

Yes,I think the Election Commission of India’s contribution is quite significant. The way we keep getting delegations from these countries,including from Pakistan. My counterpart from Pakistan came on January 25. They took a lot of interest in our activities. They wanted to know how we are so effective. And,of course,we shared everything that we know,which we are willing to share with anybody. But you talked of Muslim countries,it’s ironical that Islam is basically meant to be a very democratic religion,but we have the least democracies in the Muslim world. As you said,the Election Commission of India has become a world brand. At the same time,when they ask us questions about criminals in our Parliament and Vidhan Sabha,when they all know about the money power,it does embarrass us enormously and we need to do something about it.

So what’s your agenda,once this phase of elections is over? How are you going to build pressure on the system to make this happen? Before it spills into the streets and we are presented as really bad at making democratic choices,in fact fascist choices.

You know,I would like to give the devil his due. The very fact that the government has taken it so seriously and the fact that six regional symposia have already been organised,attended by top leaders,lawyers,journalists,civil society. There is a momentum,but it needs to be taken to its logical conclusion.

So what’s your next step after these elections,because another year and you have another set of big state elections. There’s UP next year.

Well UP,Punjab. For the five states next year,we start our preparation for the elections one year in advance.

In the little interregnum that you will get,how do you increase pressure or momentum for reform to happen?

We will try and take this momentum to its logical conclusion,in the sense that we will have the Guwahati convention before the end of this month or early next month. And then we’ll push for the national meet,which was postponed for cricket,to take place before long. Because the government and the nation should not miss this opportunity.

And I know you don’t want these things done through Jantar Mantar.

Absolutely,not when we have Parliament next door. But if Parliament fails to discharge its duty,that is what forces situations like what we encountered.

That’s a very timely warning. And I know nobody can take you lightly because not only do you have credibility as CEC,but you also have respect through your almost four decades of service. Thank you very much and many congratulations to you for the various elections.

Transcribed by Arundhati Chakravarty. For longer text,visit www.indianexpress.com