‘NCL has successfully transferred several technologies to industry’

SOURAV PAL: The NCL is a constituent laboratory of Council of Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR),the apex policymaking body. Under CSIR,there are 37 laboratories across the country,each with a lot of autonomy and its own specialised areas of research. In the case of NCL,it is chemical science and engineering broadly. Of these laboratories,Pune has one — NCL. In addition,Pune has a Unit for Research and Development of Information Products (URDIP),located in Kothrud. URDIP is a unit of CSIR. CSIR is a wing of the Department of Scientific and Industrial Research (DSIR),which in turn comes under the Ministry of Science and Technology. It is headed by the Director General (DG),who is also the Secretary to the Government of India. Each of the laboratories is headed by a director and has niche areas of research.

ISHFAQ NASEEM: What happens in the case of a clash between science and policies,for instance,in the case of issues related to gene therapy and preservation of gene pool?

PAL: There are certain issues that are scientific; some are ethical,social or even legal. Today we are talking about green chemistry. But often the industries cannot practise this since their investments become enormous in certain cases. There are often ethical and social issues of conflict. CSIR makes policies looking at the country’s needs,but at times scientists have to be convinced of the bigger picture. Conflict should not be viewed as a problem but as an opportunity to go forward. There should not be any negativity attached to it. It helps us engage in discussions and in turn brings out various angles to a particular problem.

RAJENDRA YEOLEKAR: Today,most private companies have their own Research and Development (R&D) units. Where does NCL stand in comparison to them?

Yes,a lot of companies have R&D units,but their research is focused more on specific problems. For basic research,they often heavily depend on government funded labs such as CSIR labs. While most of the R&D units of industry look at immediate needs,we (public labs) are the ones who can do science with long-term objectives. We are into three types of science — fundamental science,science for the society and for the industry. We can look at all the three in a holistic manner,which is often not pursued in industries.

MUKUND SANGORAM: Do you have any international collaboration with laboratories elsewhere? Where do we stand in terms of global rankings?

PAL: We have many collaborations,but obviously they are also our competitors. There are laboratories in Germany who have a mandate similar to us (Max Planck Institutes). Then we have Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO),Australia and Council for Scientific and Industrial Research,South Africa. With many of the institutes and universities abroad,we have signed memorandums of understanding (MoUs) for exchange of students. NCL has its own base in organic chemistry,catalysis,polymers,as well as computational science,an area where chemistry can be virtually created using theory,modelling and simulations on computers. Computer aided drug design,being used by pharma companies,is essentially an example of this. But when you ask about rankings,unfortunately there are no acceptable grading systems for laboratories,so it is difficult to quantify that.

PUPUL CHATTERJEE: You have often talked about the need for a collaboration between research institutions and the industry. What kind of collaborations does NCL have as of now? Any such ongoing projects?

PAL: We are approached by various big and small companies,right from Procter and Gamble,General Electric,DuPont,Dow Chemical,BASF and so on,apart from lots of Indian industries. We seek to create value addition through collaboration with industries. But gradually the type of association has changed as per the need of the times. While earlier this association used to be on a contract basis,where we developed a process and gave the industries. But now we’re trying to change the system and including the industry in various stages. Also when we develop a process,we emphasise that the intellectual property ownership lies with CSIR-NCL,although the patent details vary on a case to case basis.

MANOJ MORE: What would you say is the biggest contribution of NCL to the industry and to the environment?

PAL: Well,it is difficult to pick one as NCL has contributed in various sectors in the last six decades. Some of them I would say would be the domestic agrochemical industry,contribution to the establishment of commercial production of many fine chemicals,organic chemicals and Active Pharmaceutical Ingredients (APIs) and catalysts for the first time in India. In the area of tissue culture processes,the first protocols for in vitro culture of plants were established at NCL. Several micropropagation technologies were developed and transferred to industry,such as cardamom,eucalyptus,bamboo,teak,salvadora,sugarcane,banana,turmeric and ginger. In the last few years,NCL successfully transferred several technologies to industry including proprietary processes for recovery of cellulose from bio-mass and chiral active pharmaceutical intermediates. We are working on Fuel Cell,clean coal as well as on Solar Energy programme as important national mission.

AADITI JATHAR LAKADE: One of the most ambitious projects of NCL was the Innovation Park,also known as the Venture Centre. What kinds of projects are being taken up there?

PAL: Many start-up companies are using facilities at of Venture Centre. I think we have been successful at the first stage,which was to bring start-up companies to the Venture Centre. But I would be happier when more of NCL science is commercialised through Venture Centre. The basic idea behind setting up of the Venture Centre was to allow the laboratory research to be commercialised and reach the market. As of now,start-up companies start with somebody else’s patent,but like I said,I will be happy if companies come and work with our patents. But the Venture Centre has been there only for two years,so it will take some time before that happens. As of now,we have 15-20 odd start-up companies at the Venture Centre.

PRANAV KULKARNI: Many laboratories like Defence Research Development Organisation (DRDO) face problems at the production stage. Do you also face similar issues when working with industries?

PAL: They have model very different than ours,they have many exclusive products over which they have a monopoly. However,like DRDO,we also face problems,particularly,in commercialisation. Now,we are looking at a collaboration with HEMRL,Pune. Though the details are yet to be finalised,it will broadly be research on energy materials. Similarly,there are collaborative MoUs with other government funded labs. At NCL,we are not directly involved with manufacturing of products. We can tell people how to make products or we even make products at the laboratory stage,but we don¿t make them at the commercial stage. The biggest problem is that of scaling-up as manufacturing cost factors have to be taken into consideration when it comes to the commercial products. Large parts of the chemical industry,including pharma,materials,come to us. But we give them the process we have developed and that is where the association used to end. We have realised that for commercialisation,the hand-holding process with industries must continue till the end.

PUPUL CHATTERJEE: You have often talked about scientists integrating their research with teaching,so that both the research and teaching fraternities benefit. Do you see this happening any time soon at NCL?

PAL: Yes,I strongly believe that our scientists should teach. In fact it is a common practice in most foreign universities and laboratories,where in certain cases,they compulsorily have to complete a certain number of teaching hours in order to carry on with their research. Personally,I enjoy teaching and encourage other scientists to teach also. I have been associated with teaching at the University of Pune since the 1980s and am currently an adjunct professor at Indian Institutes of Science Education and Research,Pune. Now with CSIR moving towards creating an academy,known as the Academic of Scientific and Innovative Research (AcSIR),we hope this kind of integration between education and research will become easier. Due to the disconnect between research and education,our system is suffering.

PRANAV KULKARNI: Do you think Indian universities or laboratories still fail to attract people because places outside India offer more attractive pay packages?

PAL: Most of the applications we get are from Indians from abroad,and despite everything else,they want to come back to India. Though the trend is relatively new,but it has definitely started. Also we must realise that in academic circles abroad,especially in Europe,jobs are very limited and are difficult to get. CSIR is making career progression path,(in terms of promotions) much better today than when people like me joined in the early 1980s. The situation is getting reversed from that of a few decades ago,when people wanted to settle abroad.