It’s not easy to get two Bollywood directors to agree to a debate in print. Especially two who are contemporary cinema’s latest mavericks. No discussion on the Hindi film industry is complete without a mention of their films and both were main contenders for India’s official entry to the Big O. Then, there is also this to consider: While both films have a nationalist flavour, they have vastly differing points of view. While one had protagonists rejecting Gandhi’s principle of non-violence and following Bhagat Singh’s path to rouse a nation from its apathy, the other was a shining example of following the Gandhian approach in modern times.

­But even as it is Mehra’s Rang De Basanti that beats Hirani’s Lage Raho Munnabhai as the official entry to the Oscars, the makers agree—on the eve of Gandhi Jayanti—to a debate on Gandhi and his relevance today.

Even though Hirani has a doctor’s appointment for his sore throat, he promises to make it for our date. Mehra takes a break from scripting his next movie and arrives on dot. Hirani is running a bit late courtesy the Mumbai traffic. He messages an apology to Mehra who tells him to take his time. When Hirani makes an appearance, both greet each other like long-lost buddies. And despite their differences, the makers exude only camaraderie and mutual respect.

How many times have you seen each other’s latest films? We’re curious.

Mehra: I’ve seen Lage Raho Munnabhai once.

Hirani: I’ve seen Rang De Basanti two times.

Clearly then, Raju has an edge.

Mehra: Not at all. Lage Raho Munnabhai is the first film I saw in two years.

Hirani: (Laughing): It’s ok, Rakeysh, you can go and see it again tonight.

Assume you hadn’t written your respective films. Supposing the scripts of both were in circulation and you were given a choice, which one would you pick?

Mehra (Poker faced): If I had known the script of Lage Raho Munnabhai existed, I would’ve stolen it. And if I knew that Raju was making this particular film, then I would’ve murdered him. Jokes apart, I would’ve gone for either/or. Both are great screenplays screaming to be made into movies.

Hirani: After Munnabhai MBBS, I was desperately looking for a script to direct. Since I didn’t get anything good, I decided to write the script of Lage Raho Munnabhai. So I would have definitely gone for Rang De Basanti if it were offered to me. And since there is such a dearth of good scripts, I would have picked both of them.

If you had swapped the scripts, how would you have directed the films?

Mehra: Lage Raho... has an exceptionally great screenplay. It’s one of those rare films in which once the plot is revealed, every moment becomes a moment of conflict. When you come across something so nice and beautiful, you just want to let it be. It’s theoretical how I would have made it. The fact is that I haven’t and I want to sincerely accept Raju’s film with open arms.

Hirani: Exactly. If I got the script of Rang De Basanti, I would’ve been definitely inspired by its superb idea. But it would not be the same film. I would’ve shot it differently according to my sensibility. But I love how Rakeysh has shot it. I love the way he has used sound and the locations. When I compare Lage Raho Munnabhai with Rang De Basanti, I feel I’ve shot my film very simplistically.

Let’s shift gear and focus on the real reason we are here today. Today being the eve of Gandhi Jayanti, how relevant is the Mahatma in today’s world?

Mehra: I’d like to confess that for a long time, Gandhi was more of an idea than a person to me. In fact, sometimes he even ceased to be an idea. Sirf naam ke vaaste hi reh gaye the. I had even forgotten that his picture is printed on the currency notes. But Raju’s film has brought Gandhi back in my consciousness. He has made the idea of Mahatma Gandhi relevant for me again.

Hirani: I didn’t study Gandhi in school. Richard Attenborough’s Gandhi was the only influence. I also grew up hearing ‘ki aaj ke zamane mein Gandhi nahin chalta’. But I always felt that there were two sides to him; one the person who fought for freedom and the other that was the Gandhi way of life, which spoke about simplistic goodness. People say his methods won’t work in today’s world but those times were more turbulent, so if Gandhi could work then, he can surely work now also. Of course, he wouldn’t use the tools of fasting or hadtal, he would have thought of something unique. Like in Lage Raho..., when Sanju gives flowers to Lucky Singh, he is protesting but in a non-violent way. Maybe Gandhiji would’ve done something like this.

But is that a practical solution?

Hirani: It’s practical in lots of situations. I’m talking of Gandhi’s way of life here. We can solve a lot of problems without aggression. That said, I’m a filmmaker and not a crusader. I don’t think any film can change the world. It can maybe effect .001 percent of the population and that is quite a sizeable number in a country like ours. And from the reactions we’ve been getting from people, I think that’s happening.

Mehra: More than the film, Raju is talking about the idea of Gandhi. Let’s be real. Gandhi is far above what we’ve done. He came down from South Africa to India because he couldn’t tolerate exploitation of men by men. He did some mind-blowing stuff that helped us gain independence. He employed ways and means to remain within the law. He felt that way he’d best be able to change the system.

If you feel that way, why wasn’t Gandhi included in the storyline of RDB?  

Mehra: The only time Gandhi’s mention came in the film was when Bhagat Singh’s character writes a letter to him. In real life too, they never came face to face. Bhagat Singh was a Gandhian till the age of 21 but then became disillusioned and set out on his own path. Gandhi wasn’t required in my story, so he wasn’t there.

Let’s go back to the relevance of Gandhi in today’s world. One feels that RDB has been more successful in starting a movement of sorts, like support rallies for Jessica Lall and anti-reservation protests. On the other hand, LRM affected people on a more personal level. Does that reflect on the different approaches of Gandhi and Bhagat Singh?

Hirani: Films can’t change the world. As a filmmaker, I just want to make a film that touches people, on whatever level. After Munnabhai MBBS, a lady told me her story. Her husband was in coma for five years but after watching the film, her kids started taking their dad to the building compound and would play in front of him. She said the family could sense that he was happy. This reaction moves me more than just figures. After Lage Raho..., a man called me from Ahmedabad. He had got a new flat and was going crazy consulting vaastu experts. But after watching the film, he sacked the experts. I’m not saying that the Gandhian way is easy. If someone spits on your front door, you can either yell or smile and wipe it. It’s about overcoming the ego. I’m not saying that there is a solution for everything. But non-violence is a far better approach than violence.  

Rakeysh, nine months after its release, everybody still comments on the violent ending of RDB. Could you comment on this?

Mehra: It’s not so simplistic for me. Non-violence is a no-brainer for me. Even a child will tell you that. I agree with Raju when he says that and given a choice, maybe I’ll also go the non-violent way. But at the same time, if a solider is attacked at the Siachen glacier or LoC, he won’t be thinking about violence or non-violence. He is defending his motherland and will do whatever to protect her.  

Hirani: Even Gandhiji got troops together for the World War. He also said that you could use the lathi and fight back if confronted.  

Mehra: Exactly. We should applaud the idea. It’s not one vs the other. There is no debate on which is a better philosophy. Films aren’t meant to preach violence or non-violence. I don’t think there has been an increase in gun licenses after RDB. People who came on the streets to make their point in the Jessica Lall case or the reservation issue made peaceful demonstrations. Integrity and self-reliance are the common thoughts in both the films. In the end of RDB, it’s said that if you want things to change, change yourself first. Join the police, army or air force rather than just point fingers.

Hirani: That’s what Gandhiji meant when he said, “Be the change you want to see in others.”

Mehra: I agree with that totally. But then again, that doesn’t make me a Gandhian. I’m a part of this country. I’ve also sung Saare Jahan Se Achcha, watched India win one war and lose another, I’ve experienced Mandal Commission. But there is a contemporary slant to all of this too. You borrow from wisdom and move on. I interpreted my reality, as I see it, in RDB.

Hirani: And I’ve interpreted my reality my way. There are no simplistic solutions for long-term problems. But when you see tears rolling down the faces of some of the most corrupt-looking men, you feel some goodness still exists. I don’t know how much we can implement this goodness. As a filmmaker, I can just offer an idea and hope that people pick it up.

Both films talk about nationalism yet they adopt pretty diverse approaches to it. But the audience lapped up both these approaches. How do you explain this dichotomy?

Mehra: A film of a particular era reflects the time it’s born in. These two films are born in 2006 and reflect today’s time to the best of our knowledge and sincerity. If both are embraced with the same warmth, it is a reflection on today’s time. We just tell a story. But maybe people can sense the belief behind both films and that’s why are receptive.  

Hirani: It’s all about the belief. The common reaction to RDB and LRM is that both are heartfelt films. Somewhere, they have touched people and that’s wonderful. Another reason can be that they are not conventional films.  

Audiences may now expect more socially responsible cinema from the two of you.

Mehra: Filmmaking is a journey. If we say that we are socially responsible filmmakers, then we won’t be honest. Tomorrow if I make a love story, I don’t want to take responsibility for all the broken hearts in the country.  

Hirani: You don’t have to take success so seriously. Rakeysh and I can’t be thinking now that we’ve made films on Bhagat Singh and Gandhi, we are more responsible than others. That’s a trap and the beginning of a filmmaker’s doom. I plan to do a sex-comedy next.