Jayanthi Natarajan: There is no secret deal. We have had our differences with the Samajwadi Party and parted ways, sometimes rather acrimoniously. But we believe that in a democracy, dialogue is essential. That is happening now. There are a couple of important issues being discussed, one of them is the nuclear deal. We do believe that it is in the national interest. If Mulayam Singh Yadav and his party are willing to support the deal, we’ll be very happy. Our primary concern is to keep communal forces at bay and ensure secularism.

Ravi Shankar Prasad: The metamorphosis of the Samajwadi Party regarding the nuclear deal is intriguing. It was the most vocal in opposing the deal. When President Bush was here, the largest demonstrations in Mumbai and Uttar Pradesh were organised by them. There may be a variety of reasons for the Samajwadi Party’s changed stance. Maybe it’s a change of heart, maybe the compulsions of UP politics, maybe it’s a new cocktail with the CBI as bartender. But this business of ‘communal forces at bay’ — how long will this political idiom remain relevant given that these two parties have been rebuffed repeatedly by the people of India? Congress came to power in 2004 on the stated grounds of keeping communal forces at bay and had nothing in common with the Left. And now we see the position of the Left on the nuclear deal. Also, except in Assam and Goa, we have won the elections in all other states.

•DK Singh: Is the Congress ready for a pre-poll alliance with the Samajwadi Party?

Jayanthi Natarajan: It would be premature to make a statement about any pre-poll alliance with the Samajwadi Party for the Lok Sabha elections or in UP. As for keeping communal forces at bay, those whom the hat fits must wear it. Our purpose is to keep communal forces at bay and it is a political idiom which is relevant. We hear L K Advani talking about building the Ram temple now. That was on the backburner, earlier. So this is an important issue for us.

•DK Singh: Last week at a meeting with the Left, RJD leader Laloo Prasad Yadav had stated, “You are helping the BJP”. Did he specify whether it was the Congress or the Left?

Jayanthi Natarajan: I don’t think he meant the Congress at all.

•DK Singh: Is the Left helping communal forces?

Jayanthi Natarajan: The Left has every right to have its own ideology. They have very strong convictions about the Indo-US civilian nuclear agreement. Therefore, I would hesitate to impute any motives. But if the aim is to keep a secular government in place, people need to think of what steps need to be taken. At the end of the day, it is the responsibility of the coalition and the Government to ensure that there is governance.

•Suman K Jha (to Ravi Shankar Prasad): How important is the Congress in your idea of India?

Ravi Shankar Prasad: The Congress is a major all-India party. If India is to grow as a strong democracy, then we should have a stable multiple party-system. In that way, we consider the Congress Party to be a strong opposition party to us, ideologically. The only problem we have with them is that we wish they were more broad-based and not centred on ‘a’ particular family. Otherwise, we respect them as a national party. Our differences are too well known to be repeated.

•Suman K Jha (to Jayanthi Natarajan): How important is the BJP in your idea of India?

Jayanthi Natarajan: The BJP is the principal opposition party for the Congress. The BJP should recognise their status as the principle opposition party and acquire a better all-India character and move on from a divisive agenda to a more inclusive one. I wish the BJP would resist the temptation of resorting to a divisive agenda during elections and focus on more basic issues.

Ravi Shankar Prasad: This constant refrain about divisive politics is becoming redundant. Let the people take a call on it. Take the case of what is happening in Srinagar. The Government has given into the demands of the separatist groups. There has been a consensus in the country that regardless of faith provisions will be made for devotees across the country. There is no better example of divisive politics than the Government’s decision to surrender to the separatists demand.

•Suman K Jha: On the Amarnath issue, the BJP is mobilising support against the state Government’s decision nationwide. It also aspires to be the next government at the Centre. Can a political party with such aspirations afford to alienate an entire state on an issue like this?

Ravi Shankar Prasad: It’s not a question of alienation. In this case, regardless of faith, convenience should be of prime importance and the Government should not have submitted to the separatist forces, the way it did.

Jayanthi Natarajan: The yatra for centuries has been undertaken in a spirit of communal harmony. The Amarnath shrine was discovered by a Muslim shepherd and the family has been engaged in conducting the yatra for decades since. Even today, the J&K Government has taken full responsibility for the logistics, the temporary shelters and pilgrims’ safety. The Amarnath Shrine Board never existed till the NDA government at the Centre and the National Conference government at the state-level created the board making the state Governor in charge of it. That’s when the divisive agenda began. Even today, the land is in the charge of the J&K Tourism department for the yatra. There is no ban on the yatra and yatris continue to come. So it is not a question of surrender.

•Suman K Jha: When we interact with leaders of the Congress and the BJP privately, there is a concurrent concern over the rise of regional parties and the shrinking base of the Congress and the BJP. Also, that regional parties generally fail to take a national perspective. So isn’t there a case for greater understanding between your parties?

Jayanthi Natarajan: Our differences are too deep-rooted for our parties to engage in a constructive dialogue even though it would be an ideal situation. The reason for me is that the BJP consistently narrows down the dialogue and the level of discourse eventually boils down to ‘dynasty’. Being someone’s son or daughter does not preclude anyone from joining politics. It happens in every party. One BJP spokesperson recently said that the senior Congress leaders should stop being pets. A few days ago in Kanpur before Advani’s rally, there were posters of Advaniji posing as Lord Ram killing the Indian Prime Minister depicted as a vulture. This is the level of discourse which bothers me. Many BJP leaders are above it, but there are still some who are a party to this. The kind of personal abuse that is heaped upon Mrs Sonia Gandhi by senior BJP leaders can’t lead to any sort of dialogue.

I believe that regional parties are important in a country as diverse as India and our dialogue with regional parties is vital for maintaining that diversity.

Ravi Shankar Prasad: We have our differences. But we have made efforts. Advaniji went to Sonia Gandhi to give her a copy of his biography. In the first instance, Abhishek Singhvi said that it was a good thing. The next day, however, there was a chorus of protests from the Congress saying how dare he give her a copy of the book which contains critical references to the Congress So, there have been attempts to make contact, formally or informally.

On the issue of regional parties, there has been a shrinkage in the base for the Congress. We have grown. We are growing in Karnataka, and have formed a government in Nagaland in the past. I don’t believe that regional parties are divisive in nature. I think they are the biggest examples of cooperative federalism in India.

•DK Singh: On the nuclear deal, the BJP wants to renegotiate the deal. What are the points of renegotiation?

Ravi Shankar Prasad: The BJP wants a good and friendly relationship with the US. We also want a strategic relationship. However, we shall not compromise on our nuclear deterrent authority. The energy component is a very insignificant component of the deal. It is 2.5 per cent now and will become 5 per cent in the coming 15-20 years with investment. The deal is a question of strategic ties. We believe that Indian atomic autonomy is a bi-product of political leadership and you may recall that post Pokhran II, there were sanctions on us from across the world. They wanted us to sign the CTBT and we refused. We don’t want to compromise on that legacy. The deal, in its current form, compromises our right to test.

•DK Singh: Is this the only reason why you do not support the deal?

Ravi Shankar Prasad: That’s the only substantial bit. Unlike the Left, who would go for a harder deal with China than this deal with the US, we want good relations with the US.

Jayanthi Natarajan: There is not a single clause in the agreement that goes against testing. It is a just a politically expedient argument. The Prime Minister has gone on record to say that there is no clause that prevents us from testing. This is a dream deal the BJP would like to have authored had they been in power, so I think they should stop opposing it. Also, when Mr Vajpayee was the PM he had publicly declared that the CTBT will be signed if necessary and he had declared that there will be no unilateral testing until further notice. This deal is about energy and ending our nuclear isolation. There are very strong provisions of the Hyde Act that apply to the US and not us. At present, there is no threat to India through the deal.

Ravi Shankar Prasad: Senior officials in the United States have stated that the Hyde Act does apply to us. And if it does apply, the deal is off if any testing is done. If the deal is off, all investments in reactors will stop. We are not going in for any test, but with the deal the possibility remains capped — that is our problem.

•DK Singh: The Left is threatening to withdraw support and may move a no-confidence motion. Will the BJP move a no confidence motion too?

Ravi Shankar Prasad: We don’t trust the Left. They may walk with the Government under the guise of containing communal forces. As for the no confidence motion, that is a decision to be taken by the parliamentary board of the party. But if there is a formal withdrawal of support from the Left, then the Congress will be in a minority and Dr Manmohan Singh should offer to resign as a man of integrity.

•Shailaja Bajpai: There is a certain public fatigue attached to the nuclear deal now. Do you think that governance has been held to ransom to it?

Jayanthi Natarajan: I agree that there are more relevant issues that need to be addressed. But the Government has been forcibly pulled into this and we now have to spend time in acquiring the numbers and support for the Government. But inflation is of paramount concern.

Ravi Shankar Prasad: As far as the deal is concerned, it is their call to take the deal forward or call it off. They have to stop vacillating over it. And we don’t agree with their management of inflation.

•Dhiraj Nayyar: Do you think the Congress should have worked with the BJP to bring in economic reforms rather than with the Left, because the Left has a fundamentally different view from yours?

Jayanthi Natarajan: It’s not practically possible to work with the opposition outside legislation over issues. We are supported from outside and as in any coalition, if consensus is taking time to form, we will have to wait.

Ravi Shankar Prasad: We are willing to help them in bringing about second generation economic reforms which we would like the Congress to take forward, despite the Left presence. Take the public sector undertakings (PSUs). They might have had a problem with disinvestment of profit-making public sector units, but they also initially supported the disinvestment of low cost PSUs. But that has disappeared from the agenda with the Left around.

•Unnirajen Shanker: There have been policies that could not be pushed forward because of your alliance with the Left, the nuclear deal being one of them. You are now looking at the Samajwadi Party which seems like a more natural ally for the Congress. Why couldn’t this have been done earlier?

Jayanthi Natarajan: Hindsight is a perfect 20-20 situation. It just seems like a natural progression of things. I can’t answer why it didn’t happen earlier. And, we still hope to convince the Left.

•Sandeep Das: It is believed that the Prime Minister’s position has been weakened by the presence of Sonia Gandhi. Please comment.

Jayanthi Natarajan: The PM’s “weakened” position is fuelled, totally, by opposition propaganda to find a convenient soft target. This is a perfect arrangement where the Prime Minister is running the UPA Government and the UPA coalition management is being done by the chairperson of the UPA.

•Coomi Kapoor: Could you describe the nature of your job as spokespersons?

Ravi Shankar Prasad: We go through the newspapers every morning and decisions are taken in meetings held four days-a-week. The leadership always gives us inputs. Our jobs are very interesting — our phones begin to ring at 7 am. The growth of the Indian media, particularly the television industry, has seen our jobs gain recognition. Also, the interest of the international media in India has been phenomenal, lately.

•Dhiraj Nayyar: Have TV studios become the new parliament?

Jayanthi Natarajan: Sometimes, the issue gets distorted by television channels, maybe because of the compulsion of running 24-hour news. They run polls on the nuclear deal, inflation, etc and the picture is always presented as if it were a national consensus. Even the studio audience is sometimes very selective with only people who subscribe to a certain discourse and speak in a certain way, being present.

Ravi Shankar Prasad: There is a television explosion in the country. A good television programme is watched by 70-80 lakh people and it is our job as spokespersons to reach out to the people.

Transcribed by Aanchal Bansal