My justification of nuclear power is that we’ve reached a stage now where the dire things that threaten us are so great that even the results of an all-out nuclear war pale into insignificance as unimportant compared to what’s going to happen.

• You seem to say we have to get over the idea that renewable energy sources—wind, solar—in the short run, are a useful way out of this.

I feel they’re largely gestures. If it makes people feel good to shove up a windmill or put a solar panel on their roof, great, do it. It’ll help a little bit, but it’s no answer at all to the problem.

• What is it about this issue that fails to capture adequate public or political attention?

I think it’s mainly because scientists, and I include myself among them, have not really understood what was going on until very, very recently. And also scientists tend to look at things much too academically.

• Your book says sustainable development is a fantasy, essentially, and you have a different notion for what needs to happen, of “sustainable retreat.”

At six-going-on-eight-billion people, the idea of any further development is almost obscene. We’ve got to learn how to retreat from the world that we’re in. Planning a good retreat is always a good measure of generalship.

• If you could take any facet of society—elected officials, doctors, writers—and show them one thing that you think could motivate the scale of change you’re talking about, any idea what you might do?

... contd.