If I say I never deceived him or I never stabbed him in his back, I say it from my heart not from my mouth.

• Kargil was as much a surprise to you as to him?

Yes, the tape has all the evidence in that, the conversation between Gen Musharraf and Gen Aziz is the clear proof of that. I think it says it all.

• Did the Indian side give it to you?

I got it through a source. And I handed it over to Mr Musharraf also. I said, ‘You have been trying to hide something from me. Now listen to this.’ He was stunned. He had nothing to say. And that was, I think, the turning point. That was the turning point.

• Did he respond? Did he say it was not his voice?

No, no. How could he deny that? Even a fool would know it was Musharraf talking.

• What does it say about somebody at that level to be carrying out such an operation and to be speaking on open lines?

Even his close confidants, his corps commanders and two chiefs of the armed forces, the Chief of Air Staff, and the Chief of Naval Staff, were not aware of the Kargil adventure.

• If you are doing this, can you be having a conversation on an open phone line that can be picked up by somebody. What does it say?

... contd.