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It's higher than before.

• What is the reason?

I don't know. I feel their organisations are training them and sending them and maybe expecting more from them.

• Do you sense any frustration on their part?

Yes, to some extent. People are giving them less and less support. There's a groundswell for peace.

• Have you heard something (over terrorist communication lines) that you remember?

No. I suppose that is off-limits for this kind of interaction. They feel they have not been able to achieve some of the objectives their masters set them.

• Right, and there is frustration.

There's going to be some questioning, some analysis. But as I say, the situation is stable and under control of the security forces. We look forward to better days.

• From Kashmir to the mainstream. In modernisation, many of your programmes haven't moved -- self-propelled guns, replacement for Bofors guns, our indigenous programmes. Does this frustrate you?

No. There's been no crunch as far as finances are concerned. The government has supported us wholeheartedly. If trials are still on, it's because the trials are quite thorough.

• If the system was different, could you have done more?

No, I think no army should rush into rapid modernisation. You need time to absorb high technology. Soldiers are the ones who will have to use it. Modernisation must be gradual and that's the way we are doing it.

• So you are satisfied with the pace at which it is going.

I think the pace is satisfactory. In some areas we are moving fast. I am sure the armed forces will have the desired punch the country expects them to have.

• I hope they do. Because I was very sad when one of your predecessors, at the height of Kargil, said we would fight with what we have. It was almost said with a sense of resignation.

I think his opinion was based on the fact that new equipment had not been forthcoming. So he said that at that time. From Kargil to today, we have improved our capabilities tremendously. For instance, in night-fighting capabilities we are moving rapidly. Our soldiers are now equipped with night lights, night-vision binoculars. We are able to carry out night evacuations of casualties by helicopter in mountainous areas.

• Can they fight at night, the helicopters?

We've got certain capabilities and we'll be acquiring the capability to fight at night as well. Our tanks have Thermal Imaging Night Sights. The new generation T-90s have very good night sights.

• The physical protection of troops has improved greatly. We see better helmets and body armour.

The ultimate plan is FINSAS -- the Future Infantry Soldier As a System. This will be an expensive programme. We have a blueprint.

• What will the FINSAS look like?

He will be able to communicate with the next soldier, he will be aware of the battlefield. A palmtop will tell him where others are in relation to him. It will also enable him to transfer messages.

• I hope our soldiers will not be weighed down, like the European and American soldiers.

No, the weight our soldier will be carrying will be evaluated carefully. It will be something manageable.

• When do we see it happening?

In phases. It could take 10-15 years.

• The army has had a 'booze brigadier', a 'ketchup colonel', and now a general who has been raided by the CBI. What has gone wrong in the armed forces?

I'd say we are one of the finest armies in the world, with no tolerance for anything that is incorrect. We take action wherever something has gone wrong. We are very sincere in our commitment to overcome our deficiencies.

• But such incidents are embarrassing. They give the army a bad name.

In our country, our people still rate us as the No 1 organisation. They feel convinced the organisation has delivered. Issues should not be blown out of proportion.

• Is there pressure because of money. Does the average soldier feel he's getting so little?

It's not that.

• Are our soldiers fairly compensated?

Let me talk about suicides, which was made into a big issue. In the last four-five years, the figure has been about 100 a year. It's very sad to lose even one trained soldier. But if you analyse the cause of those suicides, it could be family problems, land problems, financial problems. We have a more responsive minister in charge of defence than ever before. We've had so many improvements.

• Today a soldier is under pressure. He gets paid a very small amount of money. His children want to go to school. . .

I'll say they expect a fair and just deal and I'm sure our government will look at it favourably. Our countrymen hold us in high esteem and I'll pray to God to give us courage to continue on this righteous path and do our duty to the nation.

• You've seen three years of operation, three years of peace, three years of rebuilding.

We call it no war, no peace.

• Now the inevitable question: when is the time to start thinning out of Kashmir?

The border has to be guarded, as it hasn't been resolved. So there's a layer of soldiers to guard the border, a second layer to guard against infiltration. No country in the world will allow armed people to come in clandestine manner. So that deployment is necessary till infiltration stops. And the third is for a secure environment in the hinterland.