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No, I don’t remember any interaction. I have no problems about inviting her.

•When I talk to Congress people about this lack of communication, they say the big change between now and the past is Mr Modi. That after the riots in Gujarat, it has become impossible to accept the BJP.

Is it not a contradiction? How does the Rajiv Gandhi Foundation praise Modi to the skies? It’s because of his performance. And if the Rajiv Gandhi Foundation can do it, why can’t the Congress do it. Even among Muslims of the country, the per capita income is highest in Gujarat.

•So you would say it’s an excuse.

It’s an excuse because for a long time Advani was seen as the villain of the piece in the whole situation. Now Modi has become the principal villain. And demonisation pays in politics, to some extent.

•I’m going back to Vajpayee. I say you and Vajpayee are like an old couple, who sometimes don’t talk to each other, and then you go and touch one and the other comes back at you. It’s an interesting relationship. What was the one time when you had your strongest disagreement with Vajpayeeji?

One occasion, I can’t say it created any kind of situation . . . because the excerpts from the book (published in the media) identify the differences over Brajesh Mishra as something on which we had big differences. Yes, we had differences, but the book refers to differences over recommendations from a group of ministers.

•Which was the one moment when you said, ‘Look I can’t agree with this?’ Did Mr Vajpayee acknowledge that you were right (on keeping Modi, allowing him to continue)? I know about that plane ride to Goa.

I asked Modi to resign. And he offered to resign. But there was hue and cry in the meeting in Goa.

•When you look back, do you think he shared some of he guilt for what happened in Gujarat?

No, he was completely innocent.

•Why do you say that?

I don’t think he could have checked the riots in any other way than using police force, which he did. Which has not happened in any other riot in the country.

•Let me ask you about a name that comes up often: you accuse this government of not hanging him and thereby showing cowardice. Afzal.

Let them forget the opposition, the BJP, but they should not disregard the sentiments and feelings of the families of those security men who were killed in the attack on Parliament.

•What will you do when you come to power?

We’ll go by the Supreme Court’s verdict. It should be honoured. Unless, by then, this government gives him clemency.

•Have you ever felt that in the exercise of power you must be very ruthless sometimes? Have you faced that dilemma when you were in power? Because this is a dilemma, hanging somebody.

That’s not a dilemma relating to Afzal Guru, it’s a dilemma relating to capital punishment, which has been deliberated and discussed in many countries. By and large, most of the judges, experts in law, have favoured continuation of capital punishment. And they have pronounced that it should be in the rarest of rare cases.

(Concluded. The transcript was prepared by S.B. Easwaran.)

editor@expressindia.com