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 •Thank you very much for this interview, I know you are very busy and you don’t give many interviews.

I am very happy that you are here and also the fact that we are doing this interview at the war memorial. Punjab is very proud of this war memorial; we have sacrificed many lives for the country during the freedom struggle and in the wars that followed.

•Yes, we thought of this since Punjab and north Indian states have made enormous contribution and many sacrifices during wars. We don’t really build war memorials in India; our leaders and some friends got together to build this memorial. And we thought this would be a good venue for the interview. It is also close to your house.

This is a very big initiative by you.

•That is very kind of you. You are a true patriot — someone who’s spent 17 years in prison.

But I have one regret. The Government of India has a rule that only a fixed percentage of the population can join the Army from a state. This is the only Central service in which reservation is based on population. Instead, it should be according to merit. This is one of the grievances we have. There should be no quota at all. After all, there is no state quota in other Central services such as IPS and IAS.

•So why this rule only for the Army?

I don’t want to name anyone, but some people did it due to their own personal interests. The politics of this country today is about personal interests and one’s own gains. National interest is entirely overlooked. Earlier, Punjab had 25 to 50 per cent of its population in the Army. Generals used to be from Punjab. Now, there are very few, because of this rule.

•So, you want it to change?

Yes, definitely. This has been a major demand of Punjab for a long time.

•At the Centre, there is always a fear associated with Punjab — that of Sikh politics. A tag of separatism has been attached to it.

Sikhs can’t be separatists. In our very roots, even in our prayers, we think of the whole world as a place for the entire humanity, not just this country. These are all baseless fears that the Centre comes up with to taint us.

•So, there was never a separatist mood here?

No, there wasn’t. Even when the country was partitioned, there was an offer from Jinnah, but as true patriots the Sikhs chose to stay in India.

•Nelson Mandela was in jail but in an occupied country, you were imprisoned in your own independent country.

This was a policy of the Central Government, of the Congress.

•But you stayed in jail for so long... are you not bitter about it?

No, I am not bitter. I have done my duty and this is not just for the Sikhs or for the state. If anyone stood up for the country during the Emergency, it was the Shiromani Akali Dal. We started surrendering from day one of the Emergency till the very last day. Others were arrested, but we were the only ones to offer ourselves. When the Emergency began, Indira Gandhi sent a message saying that you may rule in Punjab forever, but don’t stand against the Emergency. This was against our basic principles, as we have always fought against injustice. So, we stood up against the Emergency and also supported Jai Prakash Narayan.

•And your history with the BJP also seems to have begun at the time of the Emergency.

That was an important point and post-Emergency when the government was formed, I became a Cabinet minister. I am grateful to Morarji Desai for giving me that responsibility.

•Tell me about your experience with the BJP leaders when you were in jail. It seems to have bridged the gap between Hindu and Sikh politics.

Yes, the divide narrowed down. The relationship with the BJP was not for a specific purpose. It was natural and Sikhs in other parts of the country also began to feel safe. They were confident that a major political party in the country was with them. This was a positive development, because earlier, they used to feel isolated.

•Why do the Sikhs distrust the Congress?

Because immediately after the country became independent, the Congress gave us step-motherly treatment or rather, deceived us. Nehru made several promises to the Sikhs. As a reminder to these promises, Master Tara Singh held a conference in Delhi and was arrested there. When Punjab became a linguistic state, they deceived us yet again. It was they who wanted to make linguistic states. The strongest case was that of Punjab. They didn’t agree to it and there was agitation and finally, we became a linguistic state. But we were betrayed. Chandigarh was not given to us; it was with its parent state and then made into a Union Territory.

•But there was also distrust at the Centre. They feared that if a lot of territory were given to Punjab, there would be separatism again. The shadow of Khalistan was there.

No one tried to understand the Shiromani Akali Dal. We are nationalistic and all inclusive in our approach. The Congress, in fact, supported the militants against us.

•Any particular incident?

Take the case of the Mann Dal (Simranjit Singh Mann’s party). They hardly exist, but they still vote for the Congress.

•But I believe in the bypoll they got only 1,000 votes...

... 1,300 votes to be precise and that’s just a fluke. Anyone can manage that.

•There was an era when there was a lot of talk about Simranjit Singh Mann and the separatists. Is that over?

Yes. The people of Punjab were unhappy with the discrimination of the Central Government and the Shiromani Akali Dal was not able to do much. These people promised them what we could not achieve. We stood no chance in the elections. A lot of people supported them and then there was a stage when everyone feared them. The government machinery, secretariat and the judges were also scared. But after a time, this fear turned into hatred.